He said, 'If you come on my land, I'll kill you'

http://www.enterstageright.com/archive/articles/1000land.htm ^

[tpaine]

The "working men" you value are part of the problem. They made the deliberate decision to throw in with an oppressive government, with the knowledge that ANYTHING they do to "civilians" will be forgiven, including killing them. The only thing that will get them dismissed would be to injure the government. Anything they do to outsiders results in "administrative leave, with pay", until the furor blows over.

I tried to make that kind of point once in a bar where city maintenance workers hung out.. Something about being "at the public trough" -- was as far as I got before the fight started.

[zbigreddogz]

The real issue then is when does private property cease being private in character? That's the issue.

I agree, but I don't see how you can fairly say a man is justified in violently stopping someone from putting in a pubic sewer when there is an easement for that purpose.

That's what you seemed to be saying to me, sorry if I misunderstood.

[UpAllNight]

--That's what happens when people are reduced to feelings of "powerlessness." You eventually get an irrational, sometimes deadly backlash. Frankly, I'm surprised there have not been a whole lot more of these killings--

Me too. If the anarchist that post on FR were any indication, we would have four or five of these a day.

[ClearCase_guy]

Statements like yours do nothing but help the anti-gunners.

Go ahead: Make my day --

Why do YOU think we have a Second Amendment?

[Kay Ludlow]

I guess it isn't clear to me, from the wording in the article, whether they were putting a new line in an existing easement or served him notice they were taking a new easement for the new line.

[UpAllNight]

Did you ever send them a formal bill detailing the damages?

[UpAllNight]

--The city can install new lines through my property after it has paid me for it. People in the Mountain West take their property rights zealously. Its not like the government had no advance warning the guy was going to protect his property. He owned it - not the state. --

They had an easement. Go read your deed. I bet you have an easement with restrictions on what you can do with that part of your property.

[Artemis Webb]

Totally agree. I feel terrible for the workmen killed. I have no sympathy for the loser/coward who shot dead defenseless men then couldn't cope with what the justice that would come upon him. I hope the bastard burns in hell.

[Dr. Bogus Pachysandra]

"When the property was taken doesn't make the taking any more just."
Although the article isn't particularly great, if there was an exxisting easement, the holder of that easement has the right to work there. Without easements, you would not have water, gas, or electricity.
That said, I am assuming that they were working in the pre-existing easement. If they were not, they were completely in the wrong, and the guy coulda won in court.

[DocH]

I'd remove the 'especially in our urban centers' portion of the above comment, and agree.

I believe he said "urban centers" because the majority of our larger inner-cities are run by corrupt, inept, socialist (demonRATS, progressives, etc.) bureaucrats who have no qualms at all about using and abusing their, unfortunately, considerable powers.

That is less the case in Red states "flyover" country, the South, Soutwest, etc.

[UpAllNight]

--Go ahead: Make my day --Why do YOU think we have a Second Amendment?--

How many civil servants have you killed today?

[vetvetdoug]

The contractor filed bankruptcy right after the job leaving many holding the bags....I would have had to stand in line for a good while to get any compensation.

I have had several stipulations for this next foray by the city on my property with them going to pay for every thing that has to be fixed and them having to pay for any costs...lawyers too. I appreciate you pointing me to my homeowner's policy, I never thought about "seeking" the insurance company on the sorry sons of loose dogs.

[ClearCase_guy]

So, you admit it? You have no idea why the Second Amendment exists?

[Jezebelle]

But that's not what happened here. The city wasn't satisfied with the easement they had and wanted another one - better, larger, longer - whatever.

Normally when somebody wants an easement, they PAY the landowner for it, if he agrees to grant one.

If I had a small easement to use part of your road for ingress and egress to my property, and I decided I needed to expand that so I could drive directly to an outbuilding I planned to put at the back of my property, I would have to come to you and ask for the easement. You would then say "Yes", "No", "Hell no", or "Okay, but pay me $x,000.00 for the easement." We would then lay out the length, width and what the usage of the easement would be, reduce it to a legal description, you grant it to me, I pay you, and I go record the easement.

The city didn't do that. They were warned to get off his property. He shouldn't have shot them, but they pushed him over the edge. The real tragedy is that it was just city workmen sent to do a job, including the deputy, who were shot instead of the city managers who made the decision.

The man who did the shooting worked at a battery recycling plant. He obviously couldn't afford to fight the city machine with lawyers, so he used the means afforded by the Second Amendment of the Bill of Rights. The real tragedy is that he shot himself. There's a good chance the jury would either nullify his actions or certainly give great weight to the mitigating factors. If I was on the jury, I would. My argument with him would be that he shot the wrong people.

Maybe next time the city decides to steal access to someone's property they'll think twice and do it the right way - negotiate and PAY for it!

[tpaine]

I guess there are few surveyors who haven't been threatened with or faced a shotgun or rifle. It can be pretty scary, particularly when you're a green member of a surveying party chain gang. Been there. Done that.

I've done a lot of hunting on public lands. -- I agree, there's a ~lot~ of irrational property owners out there.

[An Old Man]

"-- Indeed, it is the ability to act at will and without need for justification within some domain which is the essence of freedom, be it of speech or of property."

Normally, I agree with Vin.
But killing these working men for "the principle" of the ability to act at will and without need for justification" is beyond rationality.
A new sewer line running under his ~property~ was a justifiable cause for killing?"

Retorically speaking, why is it that there is always a "but" in these things. Do we have to have some tribunal meet to declare that the government is acting in a tyranical manner? Just where is the line that must be crossed before good men are allowed to act?

I eagerly await your response.
Semper Fi
An Old Man

[Maverick68]

This is indeed a tragedy, and I wish it had not come to this. However, I do believe it is going to take some good people doing some very bad things to make our government listen to us.

[vetvetdoug]

Yes. The city government and workers said they were not responsible because the contractor had filed bankruptcy. They did not help me in any way to repair my property. Since then I have learned what I should have done. Unfortunately, I would have had to hire a lawyer to fight to get compensation. Damn, a city/contractor tears up your property and doesn't do what they promised and now I have to hire a lawyer to get compensation? It sickens me that to get any honorable judgment in this country I have to go and pay a pantload of money to a sorry assed lawyer to fight for me. I like lawyers as much as I like government employees...most of the time they are the same.

[Artemis Webb]

This is not a 2nd Amendment issue. It is the issue of some nut case (coward) murdering men in cold blood because he doesn't understand that if you want city roads, city water, city power, city gas, cable tv and telephones you have to allow for certain things to be done on your land by the city.

He should have lived in a cave if he did not understand these things instead of smoking a turd in hell like he is now.