Posted on 12/21/2006 11:05:18 AM PST by Utah Girl
Someone who refuses to consider voting for a woman as president is rightly deemed a sexist. Someone who'd never vote for a black person is a racist. But are you a religious bigot if you wouldn't cast a ballot for a believing Mormon?
The issue arises with Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney's as-yet-undeclared bid for the 2008 Republican nomination. Romney would not be the first member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to run for the nation's highest office. He follows Orrin Hatch (2000); Mo Udall (1976); his father, George Romney (1968); and not least of all Joseph Smith, who ran in 1844 on a platform of "theodemocracy," abolition, and cutting congressional pay. Despite a strong showing in the Nauvoo straw poll, Smith didn't play much better nationally than Hatch did, and had to settle for the Mormon-elected post of King of the Kingdom of Heaven.
With his experience as a successful businessman, Olympic organizer, and governor, Romney has a better chance, but he may still have to overcome a tall religious hurdle. According to a recent Rasmussen poll, only 38 percent of Americans say they'd definitely consider voting for a Mormon for president. Yet many analysts think LDS membership is not an insuperable obstacle. Various evangelical sects continue to view Mormonism as heretical, non-Christian, or even satanic. But because of their shared faith in social conservatism, evangelical leaders seem open to supporting Romney. As far apart as they are theologically, Mormons and evangelical Christians may have more in common with each other anthropologically than they do with secular Americans watching Big Love on HBO. The remaining skepticism on the far right seems to have more to do with doubt about whether Romney has truly and forever ditched
(Excerpt) Read more at slate.com ...
Who cares? What are his stances on taxes, spending, gun rights, property, and fighing Islamic Terrorists?
Lets stick with the important stuff!
If it wasn't true, I suspect Romney would come out and say so.
ant = and, Sheesh!
CO-worker & I were at (Mormon) boss' house for his daughter's wedding not too long ago - co-worker saw portrait of Joseph Smith prominently displayed over mantle and said to me (quietly, thankfully), "Geez, I didn't know Thomas Jefferson was a Mormon."
(They DO look quite alike...)
LOL! Now that's agood one!
Well, ignoring the Mormon-baiting tone for now, what, exactly, does that claim have to do with serving as president? I mean, even if it is exactly as you say, why should that keep someone from voting for Mitt?
Southern Baptist have a pretty bad track record as prez.
See? Their religion does not matter. It's their policies and positions that matter.
You just lost.
Gimme any religion, company, country, party, whatever and if I'm paid to research dirt on em I'm gonna find it.
"Forgive me for being extremely jaded,"
Only if you forgive me for the same. The stuff I've been trying to out Reid for are the type of things you get seriously hurt for in Nevada, but I get all these yokels on these threads claiming I make it all up.
Someday I hope they are in the same position. When you wake up in the middle of a situation where someone is trying to trick you into a murder deal, that's when you suddenly know you aren't in Kansas anymore.
Ya can't dance with your pants around your ankles!
"Is it possible there were just bad people (The politicians from any religion are not exactly the best ant the brightest after all) and not the church itself? Are most Mormons good people in your opinion, or are w all politicians in sheep’s clothing to you?"
As I've said repeatedly, I don't have problems with Mormons on a neighborly basis. However, it is my experience that when in positions of power, certain doctrines of Mormonism magnify the problems that always come with that power - specifically the idea that you get your own planet and become a God. Harry Reid is a prime example of this, but I have dealt with others. Dangerous situations, and very real.
"Not that I expect it to help. If a Mormon offended you in any way, I apologize for any obnoxious or offensive action they may have taken. Truly the church does not teach that we should offend any man intentionally; however, there are those in every religion who are not keepers of the word, but hearers only. Mormons are no exception to this."
Look, there are many things to be admired about the Mormons in general, and I appreciate your apology. And as a Lutheran any serious student will know Martin set off wars that eliminated large chunks of Europe, so I could understand a Lutheran fielding questions on that. Similarly, I believe Mormon doctrine offers strife at the presidential level that deserves discussion, and my beliefs are the result of repeated experience in business and political settings as well as research.
"I will state that the illegal dealings you list here are not in keeping with the church’s teachings, and I condemn illegality be it land deals, graft, protection, or any other immoral and illegal activity in the strongest terms."
Well, Harry Reid is a mafia linked Mormon, you should take that up with the Bishops. While you are at it, I have a former Mormon business partner who lives across from the Vegas Temple who I am about to turn into the IRS for avoiding taxes on $5 million. Have a business mentor that wants me to research another Mormon swindle as well.
"I have no interest in dishing Dirt, so I’ll just take your word that there are those in Vegas who are not keeping the commandments (the sky is blue alert!) I used to go there for conventions for work, I always felt no matter how much I washed, I was not really clean until I got home, do you know what I mean?"
Vegas is the land of opportunity, both legit and illegitimate. I do very legit business here but by necessity have to know both sides. Consequently I know saints and mafioso, a lot of things fall into a grey area where everyone interacts. For example, I used to work with Don Williams, Reid's original campaign manager, who I thought a decent guy - but he freely told me his culinary and buffalo mob stories. You have to be careful not to throw out the baby with the bathwater here.
"Any way, I am sorry some of our flock have given you problems."
I appreciate the apology, but the string of occurrences is quite long now. While normally I don't make a stink - I voted for and supported Gibbons here for Gov.- Romney at the presidential level will get my strident objection on both political and religious grounds.
"Well, ignoring the Mormon-baiting tone for now, what, exactly, does that claim have to do with serving as president? I mean, even if it is exactly as you say, why should that keep someone from voting for Mitt?"
In this instance, it addresses the poor race doctrine of Mormonism that Romney will have to defend. But in general, Mormonism has many far fetched claims that Romney will be repeatedly be called on to defend.
A catholic has to defend or condemn the abortion position of the Pope, as well as pederasty by priests, and a host of other issues. With Mormonism, you open an even more complicated Pandoras box of issues. Now, in an era when presidential elections are being won by 1%, AND Romney is by all rights a marginal candidate, do you really want to go down this road?
I have many other objections, search my name and you will find them.
"Gimme any religion, company, country, party, whatever and if I'm paid to research dirt on em I'm gonna find it."
And your point would be?
My point was that I already have a ton of data backing up my positions.
I guess your point was that you could hold your poke in the air, if someone gave you a reason to, but right now you don't even have a reason or a poke, so I should give you a reason.
Or some such gibberish.
Why don't you think of a premise on which to challenge me, then go do the research, and when you have a clue in a year or two come back and debate me.
Why?
Why is Mitt required to defend the LDS Church? Is the LDS Church running for president? Is Mitt running for Pastor of the United States?
Why, in this case, is a man's religion on trial when he's seeking public office? That question is simply baffling to me.
Unless you can demonstrate that his faith will somehow necessarily prevent him from honorably serving as president, or render him incapable of fulfilling the oath of office, I see no reason at all for it to even enter into the debate! It's completely irrelevant!
You even have lots of examples from which to choose! Find examples for me where an LDS official was unable to honorably fulfill his duties in elected office, or violated his oath of office because of his LDS faith.
I defy you to find even one case.
"Find examples for me where an LDS official was unable to honorably fulfill his duties in elected office, or violated his oath of office because of his LDS faith."
Harry Reid QED
Do I win money?
Harry Reid QED
Do I win money?
Are you a blind fool, or just angry?
I'm waiting for the part where you show how Sen. Reid's decisions are a direct result of his LDS faith. (Seems pretty unlikely, since most LDS are quite conservative and mostly honest.)
Just popping up an example of a pinhead who happens to be LDS doesn't get it.
I don't know-what about MC Hammer?
Yeah, thats it. The spate of MSM articles chiding Romney for flip-flopping are to wave conservative GOP primary voters away from Romney. You won't see McCain or Guilini hit pieces, because the MSM can live with these RINO's. No Hunter hit pieces, because he would lose and get a Dem in.
No, it is Romney they fear, because they have the expectation that he would turn out to be reasonably conservative, and could win.
I would prefer it if Romney had 100% conservative positions and managed to gain office in MA, but geez, that would be some trick. Even Reagan trimmed his conservative sails while Governor of CA, e.g. legalizing abortion.
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