Posted on 12/17/2006 3:43:18 PM PST by ConservativeMan55
One climber found dead on Mt. Hood
Innuendo, huh Fanny. Pour a little more courage, eh.
Very true.
You know, lessons learned through this all. Look how many technological breakthroughs we have made as a result of operations like this. And people pursuing activities like mountain climbing.
You don't know me, what I've been through in my life, or my firsthand experience in the sports world. Quit baiting, or make a valid point.
So it wasn't a total loss! Going up the toughest part of the mountain with a killer storm on the way was like playing chicken w/a Train!
Pray for W and Our Troops
You are cocky not humble. A smartass, not a wizened old goat.
Looks like you have more storms a comin'. Keep fighting em and they'll keep on coming.
I don't think they knew the killer storm was on the way though. Hindsight.
Yes, I did read post 474. And please don't be rude, and I will continue to respond to your posts.
My prayers go out to the families. Only one who has lost a close family member knows what they are going through. I am still dealing with the loss of my dear daddy from cancer.
That said, I still say that the families are the victims. So many folks, now my mom included are fighting to live! Why go into such a life endangering sitition, when you have those who love you, and you know you may leave them behind to suffer?
Please explain that to me.
You haven't responded in kind to my posts, only with insults. Please do not post to me again.
I truly am not jealous of these guys up on the mountain. I promise you I am not. I have no desire to be there, and I seriously doubt they are enjoying themselves, if they are alive. If you think some of us are wrong for not admiring them, then so be it.
It does cost taxpayer money to undertake this rescue. Why do you and others struggle so hard to deny that? I'm saying it didn't have to be because if they'd used better sense and stayed off the mountain during this time, others would not be risking their lives and the costs need not have been expended. That is a fact, like it or not. The cost is not that big of an issue to me, and I certainly don't want the mission to not be done because these guys were foolish and it is costing money, but the fact remains that it wouldn't be being expended had they chosen less dangerous conditions. If any survive, I think they should pay some compensation. It goes on all over the country on lakes and so forth where people take unwise risks, such as these ice fishermen. Sure, they're rescued, and I want them to be, but they are warned not to go on the ice when the conditions are bad and they go anyway. They are required to reimburse the rescue operation and their equipment, such as their snowmobiles and ATVs stay at the bottom of the lake unless and until the owner later fishes it out, not an easy task I would think.
Suppose there was a commercial plane crash nearby while this rescue is going on and there are limited assets in the area to conduct the rescue operation because these guys chose to go up there at this time? Airline travel is considered one of the safest forms of travel. Do we let them perish because the available assets are deployed to the climber rescue mission?
Our military volunteered to serve their country, not their own selfish need to take risks. That is a despicable comparison. It isn't even logical to claim they are costing the war expenditures because they were ORDERED there and congress authorized the money, so it's a ridiculous argument.
The lives of these two remaining men are of extreme importance to their loved ones and I hope they make it, so I do not begrudge the expense of the mission. One (hopefully) last time: It is NOT free, and that was my entire point. You, my friend, sound like the lefty here with your idea that all the stuff we have to undertake this rescue mission just falls out of the sky and costs nobody a dime. Repeat: It is NOT free! If we lose a chopper and crew up there, the taxpayers just lost a multi-million dollar aircraft and several families would likely lose a loved one, again for something that did NOT have to be. See how that works? WE paid for it, and these military people risking their lives are just as important to their families as the climbers are to theirs. But more realistically (than losing a chopper and crew), there are real-dollar personnel and equipment cost expenditures even if we don't lose anything. The Chinooks up there are NOT the private aircraft of the climbers.
If you are talking about climbing in 100 mph winds and whiteout conditions you are probably right :)
If you are talking about winter climbing in general (in the lower 48) then you are simply ignorant. My experience is that it is simple lapses in attention that get most people in trouble and that it is on the way down that most people get hurt. They are tired, late, and the trail is easy. They slip on some gravel and fall a couple of feet and break a bone or badly sprain an ankle. Nothing life threatening, but they are miserable and except for yelling at the rescuers when they bump them are, very, very, happy to see them.
The best part about Winter climbing is the easy descent. Glissading, skiing/snowboarding, sliding with an ice ax, etc. are all great safe fast ways to get down. The descent is where most of the problems are lady and they are definitely safer in the winter.
I'm very sorry for the loss of your Father , and the illness of your Mother, especially at this time of year. However I think you are trying to compare your situation to the climbers . Sorry--apples and oranges.
Why Don't you try not being rude yourself? Okay?
I don't know either.
Back when JFK Jr's light aircraft went down off the Eastern seaboard and the Air Force, Coast Guard, and Navy destroyers and helicopters were called out to search for survivors with morbidly obese Sen. Teddy Kennedy at the helm, the attitude was 'What a waste of countless millions'.
I can already start with this comment:
"Suppose there was a commercial plane crash nearby while this rescue is going on..."
First, if there was a crash, resources would be brought in to handle the situation.
Second, if the resources had never trained, never experienced these situations, no matter how foolish the reason, they would not successfully help the passengers on that plane that crashed.
This is reality. This is what makes us better. Sure, it is awful that these men have probably lost their lives (one has); it is awful that people are cold and miserable out trying to find them; it is awful that their families are suffering. But, as a result, we will be stronger and more informed and better able to rescue someone who really is innocent next time.
And again, the military argument is valid, first because the troops volunteered, whether to serve or for selfish reasons, The left uses your reasons all of the time. I disagree with the left, as you appear to also. But, it is the argument they use: families suffer, soldiers die needlessly, our troop resources are needed elsewhere more important, it costs too much, we could be spending more on education, medical care, etc., etc.
I have only been stating my opinion.
Prayers going up to the family members. I know how they are suffering right now.
Thanks for your response, and thank God for the fact that we live in a country that allows us to agree to disagree.
"It does cost taxpayer money to undertake this rescue. Why do you and others struggle so hard to deny that?"
And you are accusing me of something that I never said. I am more than willing to spend my taxpayer dollars on operations like this vs any other multitude of social programs. Because I know, as a result, we will all learn a little something that makes us superheroes the next time.
LOL! YOU are the one who brought up Freud, then dared me to prove he had anything to say about death wishes.
I did.
You were wrong.
*SHRUG*
As far as couches go, you're the big climber sittin' on your butt posting. Why aren't you up there helping in the rescue mission? Maybe your bi-polar issue only lets you take risks when you're in a manic phase rather than when in your depressed phase you take your depression out on the rest of us? Or maybe you are in a manic phase and lying about all your physical prowess on the internet because you could no more climb a mountain than you could launch the space shuttle.
Sure hope you don't burn your house down while baking Christmas cookies, you'd have to pay for the response from the fire department, right?
I didn't know your genius allowed you to launch space shuttles....WOW!!
Very well said.
You make an especially good point about the 180-degree difference between someone fighting for their country to make the world better and safer for their countrymen going in harm's way than some thrill seeker climbing a mountain for kicks or whatever personal gratification - adrenaline rush, one of the climbers or pseudo-climbers here referred to it - by trying to climb to a frozen summit in the dead of winter with Cat-4 hurricane winds and -30 degree temperatures.
It is an absurd comparison and quite an insult to our men and women in uniform. It's ironic that some of those very same military people are risking their lives to save the two remaining climbers.
"I find it impossible to believe this [copters] costs the taxpayer nothing."
Wherever did you get that idea?
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