Whatever the decision, doctors will still be able to dismember the baby. Yes, the baby.
Justice John Paul Stevens quickly interrupted: "Whether the FETUS is more than halfway out," he corrected the solicitor general.
"Some of the fetuses, I understand in the procedure," Justice Stevens added, "are only 4 or 5 inches long. They're very different from fully formed babies."
It would have been funny, if right there, the Solicitor General had said, "With all due respect, your honor, with that statement alone, it's quite clear where you stand on the issue."
I find my conservatism is rooted in this concept, more than anything else. I am a conservative about the meaning of words. Time and time again, liberals on other forums have decried me as some kind of Neanderthal for taking such a view. I'm just not sophisticated enough, you see, to understand all the nuances of meaning.
Horsecrap. I've been around long enough to have witnessed the destruction of clear meaning by individuals, corporations and government time and time again, in their efforts to circumvent the consequences of the dictionary meaning of words. If words can be slotted to whatever meaning is useful, then laws, contracts and the Constitution have no meaning other than what a robed priesthood deems them to have. Which is why the battles over the Supreme Court have become so vicious - because, with the acceptance of the infinite elasticity of meaning, SCOTUS becomes the final arbiter of all things in our society.
Bravo Justice Stevens! And I might add that you are 'very different' than a 14-year old male human! You speak about the unborn just like a person who has already been born!
Perhaps we should debate the 'fully formed' definition and allow that to set the parameters of allowable abortion; or in your case, an argument for 'retro-active abortion' for the 'overly' formed person, or a person who is no longer useful to society beyond eating and sleeping and listening to the sound of their own voice?
Justice Stevens could find himself as the perfect 'poster child' for euthanasia of the 'overly formed' old baby(s)...let's see, why don't you, Stevens, be the first in line. Go ahead! Step up old man!
Justice Stevens, you are worth much, much less to our human society and the future of mankind than any 7 or 8 month old on it's way into the world! What a worthless egotistical piece of old crap!
Funny. Black's Law Dictionary says that "child" means, progeny, offspring. Unborn or recently born human being. What a pathetic old bastard Stevens is. He corrupts the language and the law.
I watched it as well Nat and my reaction was the same as yours. Sad and amusing at the same time. A through the looking glass SCOTUS moment.
Not to change the subject, and apologies in advance, but when did they start allowing cameras into USSC arguments? Is this something CJ Roberts allowed? I can't believe I missed this - I've been hoping they'd do this for years.
Back to the topic, kind of: I hadn't realized Hentoff was a pro-lifer. Good news - I've always thought he was a great thinker, though I disagree with him on some things. I'd assumed abortion was one of those things.
Don't hide behind the term, "pro-life". I'm proud to call myself "anti-abortion". I don't let my opponents hide behind the term, "pro-choice". They are pro-abortion, pure and simple. Even if they spout the crap about, "Well, I wouldn't have an abortion, but I won't tell someone else what to do." I counter with, "Did your great-great-grandfather have a bumper sticker on his buckboard that said, "Don't like slavery? Then don't own one!"
Nat Hentoff : pretty smart for an old liberal.
Nat Hentoff is an important ally to the pro-life movement. Whereas many liberals like to scoff at pro-lifers, calling us religious zealots, Hentoff is an admitted atheist, so his objections can't be dismissed so easily. His is truly a voice in the liberal wilderness!
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The "final solution" in "family planning."
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In the case of abortion, the Court could very easily decide that states have some of the same power to regulate it that they have over other medical procedures. It would be possible for a state to require parental notification and informed consent. Bans could be passed on partial-birth abortion and on taking other people’s daughters across state lines to obtain abortions. The states could even require the same safety protocols that other surgical clinics must follow. But the scariest part for the abortion industry isn’t necessarily the extra regulations, but the fact that the judicial firewall would come down, and they would have to argue their case in the public square instead of depending on the “super-duper precedent” of Roe. There is nothing they fear more than having to explain themselves, and the Court could preserve Roe and still require them to do so.That may explain why oral arguments went the way they did in the recent case regarding parental notification in New Hampshire. It was Justice O’Connor’s last abortion case, and Chief Justice Roberts’ first. One striking feature was a long discussion of the exact mechanics of contacting a judge if a pregnant teen needed an emergency abortion and her parents were unavailable or she did not want them notified. How long might it take, the justices and lawyers wondered, to get that vital permission and save her life, health or fertility? Of course, no one would ask that question about an appendectomy; the doctor would simply do the procedure. That would be the reasonable answer in the case of a true emergency abortion as well, but the Justices weren’t discussing reason. They were discussing possible outs that would allow them to preserve the Roe firewall.
For four decades, American liberalism has depended largely on federal courts coming down from the mountain with stone tablets to impose their vision. Now that era may be ending, not with stone tablets imposed from the Right, but with the people making the decisions and writing the tablets.
No wonder they feel like their world’s coming to an end.