Posted on 11/30/2006 2:05:10 AM PST by Dallas59
To live peacefully with Muslims and Jews, Christians must put aside the notion that their faith requires the creation of a Christian kingdom on Earth, a Lipscomb University theologian told an interfaith gathering at the university.
"We are not going to get very far in our relationship with Jews or Muslims if we do not let go of this idea," Lipscomb professor Lee Camp said at Tuesday's conference.
The unusual gathering of several dozen clergy and lay people was devoted to resolving religious conflict in Nashville and around the world.
"We need to forsake the Christendom model," Camp said. "The most basic Christian commitment … is that we say we believe in the Lordship of Jesus. But, if we claim that, how can a Muslim or Jew trust us, if we say Jesus is the Lord of all Lords?"
Co-sponsored by the First Amendment Center at Vanderbilt University, the daylong conference was prompted by a desire to begin a dialogue about global religious conflict.
After five years of rising gas prices, disturbing privacy issues that followed the Sept. 11 attacks and the fear of terrorism, it became apparent that everyday life in Nashville is directly affected by religious conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, conference organizers said.
"We felt like the larger community is calling for this," said Larry Bridgesmith, executive director of Lipscomb's newly established Institute for Conflict Management.
Panelists representing different faiths presented their own views on how to begin to bridge the religious divide.
For Kahled Sakalla, a spokesman for the Islamic Center of Nashville, some of the answers lie in better education about Islam in the non-Muslim world.
Allah, the God Muslims worship, is the same God Christians and Jews worship, and the Quran recounts the same biblical stories of Mary and Jesus, he said.
"Yes, we have differences, but it's important to focus on commonalities," said Sakalla, one of four panelists representing different faiths who addressed the Lipscomb conference.
Mark Schiftan, rabbi of the Temple in Belle Meade, said he also believes people of faith must begin to look for common ground.
"If all of us believe we were created in God's image, then we have to believe that everyone else is also created in God's image," Schiftan said.
Charles McGowan, president of the Christian group Operation Andrew said: "It's important to us in Nashville that we be proactive. Religious leaders must engage one another if we are going to experience in this city the peace and calm we all desire."
But the issues that have divided the world's religions for millennia are so deep and fundamental — ranging from the question of whether the land of Israel rightfully belongs to the Jews and whether there is one way to salvation — that tackling them will require both dialogue with other faiths and a more introspective look at one's own beliefs, panelists said.
Some liberal theologians have suggested that different faiths are all variations on one another and that beliefs are all basically the same, a position with which Camp deeply disagrees.
Instead, he believes, Christians must not back away from their beliefs but further examine them and their own history.
First, Christians must examine their "sins of omission," he said — such as not taking the time to learn about other religions. Then they must look at their "sins of commission."
"We have such short historical (memory) spans as white Christians," he said. "There is a history of anti-Semitism, the violence and bloodshed of the crusades and cultural imperialism. We have to deal with the reality of what Christians have done, which in some cases has been to kill people."
Camp described himself as a conservative Christian but conceded his opinions may be viewed as "radical" by other evangelical Christians.
Christians must shed the idea that they need to promulgate a worldwide Christianity, he said.
"If I hold to a model of Jesus … what I've committed to in my baptism is loving my enemy," Lee said. "I'm committed to not killing you, but to serving and honoring you. It's an exclusive commitment to the way of Christ, not to the exclusive authority of Christ."
Sakalla said there may never be reconciliation on the fundamental theological divisions.
"Every religion has different teachings," he said. "For Muslims, it's: Do you believe in one God and that Muhammad" is his prophet? "I don't think we can teach individuals that the way you go to heaven in other religions is OK. You have to teach differences." •
Christians "promulgate" their religion through preaching the Word of God ...
Muslims "promulgate" their religion with the sword.
I think Muslims should do the shedding of ideas, not Christians.
It was formerly a conservative university. Now it is an embarrassment.
Well, they can trust us because we are not going to chop of any heads in the name of Christ, nor plant IED's, or fly planes into buildings for Christ.
For God's sake, what is with this guy?
With this comment, you prove that YOU are pretty much a fool. The Crusades were a DEFENSIVE reaction against the "by the sword" expansion of Islam.
Before mouthing off, you might study some history. Christianity has NEVER had, as a doctrine, the spread of itself by violent conquest. Islam does have such a doctrine.
Thank you very much!
And a special thanks for the title change.
***After five years of rising gas prices, disturbing privacy issues that followed the Sept. 11 attacks and the fear of terrorism,...***
After five years of NOT having another 9/11 due to catching the spies; 4.4 unemployment, reduced taxes; an increase in the GNP, etc.
There, it's always a pleasure to help the writer get things correct.
Christians do not live freely, equally, and securely among Muslims.
Hindus live freely, equally, and securely among Christians.
Hindus do not live freely, equally, and securely among Muslims.
Atheists, agnostics, and other secularists live freely, equally, and securely among Christians.
Atheists, agnostics, and other secularists do not live freely, equally, and securely among Muslims.
And what does Prof. Camp conclude from this? That conservative Christians must forsake their exclusiveness and bigotry so as not to offend Muslims.
There are so many fallacious statements in this article that I don't have the time to dissect it.
In fact, it's such garbage.....!
Thanks for that post. Time to FREEP that newpaper.
I forgot the cardinal rule when dealing with the news media.
~~ the media wonders why everyone believes if it is in the papers or on the lamestream, it's a lie.
Nobody wants "creation of a Christian kingdom on Earth".
We just want the neck-sawing and forced conversions to a violent ideology to stop.
we believe that continuing this dialogue is essential to fulfilling the ministry of reconciliation to which we have been called and for which Christ died.
Thank you for shedding additional light on this thread. I still must take issue with this understanding of reconciliation. Christ died that we might be reconciled to God. Throughout history, being right with God has put believers at odds with the culture around them.
John 15:20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.
Maybe.
But the assertion underlying his larger point is still fatuous: that Christians aren't doing nearly enough to placate Muslims who have no interest in any "placation" short of complete Muslim dominance.
Muslims are treated astonishingly well in countries in which there is is a strong Christian tradition. They have the same political rights as Christians. Christians have nothing to be ashamed of in that regard.
At the same time, Christians should be harmless as doves but as wise as serpents. And that requires vigilance and even resistance to Islamic attempts to dominate and subvert Christian traditions and cultures.
The reporter is probably Muslim from the name. I'm wondering if this is what she "heard." I've dealt with many people who hear only what they want to hear and interpret statements that have a clear, unambiguous meaning to fit their viewpoint.
If the reporter interpreted Professor Camp's statements through the filter of Islam, we are in more trouble than I thought.
Islam is deaf.
"I did not come to bring peace, but division." --Jesus
With this comment, you prove that YOU are pretty much a fool. The Crusades were a DEFENSIVE reaction against the "by the sword" expansion of Islam.
Before mouthing off, you might study some history. Christianity has NEVER had, as a doctrine, the spread of itself by violent conquest. Islam does have such a doctrine.
I am truly sorry I was such an imbecile. I have never studied history. Help me to understand about the forced conversion of the Jews?
Please explain this quote - one of many. German crusade. "News of the attacks spread quickly and reached the Jewish communities in and around Jerusalem long before the crusaders themselves arrived. However, Jews were not systematically killed in Jerusalem, despite being caught up in the general indiscriminate violence caused by the crusaders once they reached the city.
The Hebrew chronicles portray the Rhineland Jews as martyrs who willingly sacrificed themselves in order to honour God and to preserve their own honour. Faced with conversion or death, they usually chose death. " http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Crusade%2C_1096
SECOND CRUSADE. "The only success came outside of the Mediterranean, where Flemish, Frisian, Norman, English, Scottish, and some German crusaders, on the way by ship to the Holy Land, fortuitously stopped and helped capture Lisbon in 1147. Meanwhile, in Eastern Europe, the first of the Northern Crusades began with the intent of forcibly converting pagan tribes to Christianity, and these crusades would go on for centuries." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Crusade
Albigensian Crusade - "The next struggle centred around Lastours and the adjacent castle of Cabaret. Attacked in December 1209, Pierre-Roger de Cabaret repulsed the attackers. Fighting largely halted over the winter, but many new crusaders arrived. In March 1210, Bram was captured after a short siege. In June the well fortified town of Minerve was invested; it withstood a heavy bombardment, but in late June the town's main well was destroyed, and on July 22, the inhabitants surrendered. The Cathar residents were given a chance to convert, and the 140 who refused were burned. In August the crusade proceeded to Termes, and despite attacks from Pierre-Roger de Cabaret, the siege was solid, and in December the town fell. It was the last action of the year." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albigensian_Crusade
I am at least citing references.
Now, Biblically - There is NO DOCTRINE OF FORCED CONVERSION. It cannot be found in Scripture, because it is not in Scripture. The crusades led by the State Church did not give much heed to the Bible or true Christian principles.
I have about 130 graduate hours of theological training and Biblical history.
Whatever the proper title would be.
MM
I love watching "real" Christianity in practice on this thread.../sarcasm
Thank you for shedding additional light on this thread. I still must take issue with this understanding of reconciliation. Christ died that we might be reconciled to God. Throughout history, being right with God has put believers at odds with the culture around them.
John 15:20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.
We are to carry the message of the gospel around the world in a Christ-like way. If they take our head off - then so be it. But, we should never want to take their head off for the sake of Christ's gospel.
Peaceful coexistence should be the example by Christians - even if they take our head.
Peaceful coexistence however is impossible on Islam's part for two reasons. (1) Doctrine - their doctrine IS a doctrine of violence and forced conversion. (2) Genetic predisposition - children of Ishmael - see Genesis 16. Simply they are not rational nor reasonable but certifiably crazy.
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