HOA Rule Forbids Couple To Smoke In Their Own Home Judge Upholds Homeowners' Association Order

TheDenverChannel.com ^ | 11/16/06 | TheDenverChannel.com

[TheKidster]

GOLDEN, Colo. -- A judge has upheld a homeowners association's order barring a couple from smoking in the town house they own.

Colleen and Rodger Sauve, both smokers, filed a lawsuit in March after their condominium association amended its bylaws last December to prohibit smoking.

"We argued that the HOA was not being reasonable in restricting smoking in our own unit, nowhere on the premises, not in the parking lot or on our patio," Colleen Sauve said. The Heritage Hills #1 Condominium Owners Association was responding to complaints from the Sauves' neighbors who said cigarette smoke was seeping into their units, representing a nuisance to others in the building.

In a Nov. 7 ruling, Jefferson County District Judge Lily Oeffler ruled the association can keep the couple from smoking in their own home.

Oeffler stated "smoke and/or smoke smell" is not contained to one area and that smoke smell "constitutes a nuisance." She noted that under condo declarations, nuisances are not allowed.

The couple now has to light up on the street in front of their condominium building.

"I think it's ridiculous. If there's another blizzard, I'm going to be having to stand out on the street, smoking a cigarette," said Colleen Suave.

For five years the couple has smoked in their living room and that had neighbors fuming.

"At times, it smells like someone is sitting in the room with you, smoking. So yes, it's very heavy," said condo owner Christine Shedron.

The Sauves said they have tried to seal their unit. One tenant spent thousands of dollars trying to minimize the odor.

"We got complaints and we felt like it was necessary to protect our tenants and our investment," said Shedron.

The Suaves said they would like to appeal the judge's ruling but are unsure if they have the money to continue fighting. They said what goes on behind their closed doors shouldn't be other people's business.

"I don't understand. If I was here and I was doing a lawful act in my home when they got here, why can they say, 'OK, now you have to change,'" said Colleen Suave. "We're not arguing the right to smoke as much as we're arguing the right to privacy in our home."

Other homeowners believe, as with loud music, that the rights of a community trump the rights of individual residents. The HOA is also concerned that tenants will sue those homeowners for exposure to second-hand smoke and this could be a liability issue.

The couple said that they would like to unload their condo and get out of the HOA entirely, but they are not sure if the real estate market is right.

[twigs]

Maybe. I once lived in an apartment that made me smell like a smoker.

[Brother Harrison]

Colleen and Rodger Sauve, both smokers, filed a lawsuit in March after their condominium association amended its bylaws last December to prohibit smoking.

Seems to me that when they purchased their property, smoking WAS NOT a problem: the operative word here being AMENDED.

[CindyDawg]

I wonder if we build them differently ? All the ones around here that I see are on seperate AC units. I wonder if that makes a difference.

[Mad Dawgg]

"Coming up next: perfume. You will not be able to wear it in public, then it will be forbidden in your own home."

And peanut butter, lots of folks die now if they even get a whiff of the stuff.

[Atlas Sneezed]

What's to keep a non smoker from seeing a neighbor light up and try to change the HOA to no smoking in houses now?

---

The good sense of the voters in your community undoubtedly have.

[Kenton]

Until the Gestapo HOA changes it's ruling, I'd keep a pot of garlic boiling on the stove 24/7.

Yeah, then all you get is a bunch of Italians sitting around outside your apartment drooling... ;)

[cwat212]

I have personally provoked the vapors in some people by simply having a fake cigarette in my mouth in commercial establishments.

This is clearly a neurosis.


^^ That is yes. As for the smoke in a hotel room - I have checked into what was supposed to be a non-smoking room and just dropped off our luggage while my wife waited in the car. When I returned to the car, my wife could smell the smoke on me. Someone decided it was their right to smoke in a non-smoking room. Things like that make it hard for non-smokers to feel sorry for smokers.

It really is nasty to some.

[SoothingDave]

To legislate what people do inside their own home, that isn't criminal, is a gross invasion of privacy.

If what they were doing (i.e. the smoke) stayed inside their home, there would not be a problem.

That their smoke is infiltrating the homes of others creates a violation of the other's right to be free.

You can't claim privacy if your smoke is in my house. Duh.

SD

[saganite]

Christians can fight back and have a lot of clout. Even though there's a lot of Christian bashing that goes on it's not open season on them. I'm beginning to think it's going to be open season on Israel soon though.

Smokers on the other hand aren't allowed to have an opinion. They are truly outcasts.

[LetsRok]

Yeah, what kinda lowlife scumbag actually changes his own oil or does his own auto repair? I'm definitely a more valuable and better human being than they are. I pay others to perform such menial labor that I am above doing.

You do not know me. I prefer to change my own oil, brakes, etc. What the HOA is protecting me from is the auto mechanic who is working on OTHER PEOPLE's cars during his off hours from the dealership. When you pay $975K for a house in a golf course community you expect better.

[Moonman62]

The Suaves said they would like to appeal the judge's ruling but are unsure if they have the money to continue fighting. They said what goes on behind their closed doors shouldn't be other people's business.

I agree. But the problem is the door isn't sealing in the smoke.

[GatorGirl]

Normally, I don't have sympathy for those who lose to the Association Nazis, as they bought into them, but in this case the rules were changed. They should have been grandfathered in!

GG

[2Jedismom]

I checked in to my property restrictions when I wanted to get some chickens (I live in a older neighborhood.) My 1959 restrictions stated that I could only own enough chickens for my family's personal consumption...that I couldn't operate a poultry business from the property!

LOL!! I still have a copy of it...I think it's hysterical.

(I ended up with 6 hens that lived back there three years and no one even knew. Also, we had two meat chickens that we even butchered back there and not a soul in the neighborhood knew. We were very careful not to allow anything to get smelly and we didn't get roosters so they wouldn't crow and bother anyone. We could've...the rules said we could...but we didn't out of good manners.)

[TheKidster]

So because you don't agree with it, those of us who do live in HOA neighborhoods are unAmerican?

No the concept itself runs counter to the ideals upon which this country was built. I'm certainly not saying an individual is unamerican simply because they live in a HOA community. I would say that those who use the HOA to enforce thier preferences are getting thier game plans from Karl Marx. I would go even further and say those people need to get a life and lose the chip on thier shoulder.

[Inwoodian]

This was an amendment to the by-laws that went into effect last December. Presumably this was after the couple bought their condo unit. If so, this is a change in the terms and conditions after the purchase.

[Mad Dawgg]

"I take it your answer was no? Silly laws result from silly people. Just because it hasn't happened , doesn't mean it won't. We have a 5 foot easement on both sides of our house. People can build within 10 feet of each other. What's to keep a non smoker from seeing a neighbor light up and try to change the HOA to no smoking in houses now?"

I think that is only half of the problem, Imagine how Ms.Hillary and Ms. Pelosi will go about SAVING THE CHILDREN. I can see a day when laws will be passed disallowing smoking and other vices in neighborhoods that have children.

What to have a backyard cookout? Sorry No beer No Cigs and for God's sake no open flames. But you are allowed to have government approved tofu sandwiches and granola snacks.

[Howlin]

Your convenience and how people percieve you is all that matters to you.

So we should all pay $400,000 or $500,000 for a house and have some jerk put his RV up on blocks next to it, or run a body shop out of it and lower the value of OUR house?

I think not.

I bought my house precisely because it had a HOA.

[Ditto]

That must be some damn crappy construction by the developer of they can smell a cigarette through the walls. What happens if some Koreans move in and start cooking kimchi?

[Digger]

The psychotic antis are mentally ill and cannot be appeased. They must be stood up to and forced to back down. No more being "polite." Politeness has gotten us to this point.

I'll bet that there were (R)s on city councils, etc that vote for smoking bans & I'll bet you that 98% of the people that opposed this still voted for these frauds just because of their (R).

[ichabod1]

In the movie Pacific Heights the tenant (Jack Nicholson, I think) made himself a roach farm in the apartment he was renting. He was breeding them, feeding them cracker crumbs, he raised millions of them.