Vietnam veteran full of life despite nine months of torture (See update in #90)

There is no dishonor in serving as a cook, a baker, a forklift operator, or a typewriter repair man (I met one when I was in Saigon in '67.). Why these guys need to lie about their service will always be a mystery to me.

Thanks for your work. Another fraud exposed.

Update: Editorial & Front Page story in today's Lubbock AJ regarding the bogus story. Editorial is posted below story below. All are posted from www.lubbockonline.com

FRONT PAGE STORY:
Veterans groups expose bogus claims in story
BY RAY WESTBROOK
AVALANCHE-JOURNAL

National veterans groups say Clarence Lee's claims to have been a decorated helicopter pilot and a prisoner of war during the Vietnam War are bogus.

The wheelchair-bound Lee was featured in a front-page Avalanche-Journal story Saturday leading up to Veterans Day events in Lubbock. He served as a Marine for six years, and what he claimed as his discharge paper showed him to be a driver.

The A-J contacted Lee on Monday to tell him about the concerns raised about his story. Lee came to The A-J and tried to defend his claims by saying he would return Tuesday with documents. He did not have the documents Tuesday. Later Tuesday, he said in a phone conversation that he "was sorry and to tell the people he was sorry about it and would never do it again."

Mary Schantag, a board member of the nonprofit P.O.W. Network of Skidmore, Mo., said there are many misrepresentations of prisoner of war status.

"This is literally a pandemic right now," she said. "We have had more phony POWs exposed - two to three times more - than came home alive after Vietnam. This is not a rare occurrence. This is an everyday occurrence."

Around Veterans Day, the problem increases, she said.

"I probably have had the reports of 40 fraudulent claims over the last three days," Schantag said. "And this type of thing is epidemic, and it steals the honor and glory of all these guys."

Schantag's husband, Charles Schantag, is chairman of P.O.W. Network and served in the Marines during Vietnam. He was wounded in the war.

In the story, Lee made these claims:

He was a prisoner of war in Vietnam.

Larry Greer, spokesman for the Pentagon's POW/MIA office, reported there was no documentation that Lee was ever a prisoner of war.

"Nobody by that name was listed as a POW during the Vietnam War," he said.

Schantag also said she can find no evidence of the validity of Lee's story.

"There is no historical reference material any place that backs up what he claims about being a prisoner of war," she said. "The POWs don't know him. His story doesn't check out. There is no evidence that he was ever a helicopter pilot."

The P.O.W. Network is an educational organization, not a veterans' group, according to Schantag.

Steve Maxner, deputy director of the Vietnam Center at Texas Tech, searched a Department of Defense POW/MIA list and did not find Lee's name.

On the Web site, "Lee" is listed four times, but there is no listing for any Clarence Lee. The site is www.dtic.mil/dpmo.

James R. Reckner, director of the Vietnam Center, also checked the Department of Defense POW Missing Personnel Office Web site and its records of prisoners of war, escapees, returnees and remains-recovered, exclusively listing Marine Corps personnel.

"That list clearly includes individuals from the USMC who were captured for relatively short periods of time and escaped, and also would list those who were returned to U.S. control for any reason at any time," Reckner said.

"If, as Mr. Lee claims, he was held at the Hanoi Hilton, then most certainly there would be records for him. I also checked some non-government sites relating to Vietnam POWs and didn't find him listed in any of them."

Lee claimed he was a helicopter pilot in Vietnam.

Lyndel Evans wrote the following in an e-mail: "If Lee was a Marine Corps helo pilot, he was the only one ever. The Marine Corps, to my knowledge, and I retired from 30 years in the Navy, has never had warrant officers as pilots, period. There were flying sergeants during World War II, but no flying gunners. The Army has always had and still has warrant officer helicopter pilots."

Schantag said, "There is no evidence that he was ever a helicopter pilot. I have down that he was a motor vehicle operator. He never flew a helicopter."

Lee claimed he had a best friend named Bill McCoy who was a helicopter pilot and was killed in action.

Researchers familiar with military Web sites and Vietnam archives found no evidence to substantiate that.

Robert Destatte of Temecula, Calif., wrote in an e-mail that official casualty lists confirm that only six Marines with the surname McCoy or Mc Coy were killed in Vietnam. "All six of these Marines were enlisted men. Since all military helicopter pilots were either commissioned or warrant officers, none of these six Marines could have been helicopter pilots," he said.

"Furthermore, none of these six Marines hailed from Alabama. Their homes of record were Moab, Utah; St. Louis, Mo.; Wilmington, N.C.; Buffalo, N.Y.; Berkeley, Mo.; and Detroit, Mich."

Lee contends he was given the Navy Cross but that it was left with his other medals at his sister's home in Atlanta.

Nigel Brooks of Pearland wrote in an e-mail to The A-J that HR 3352 of the 109th Congress seeks to amend Title 18, Section 704 to include the following:

"Whoever knowingly and fraudulently wears and/or represents him or herself as having received a Medal of Honor, Distinguished Service Cross, Navy Cross or Air Force Cross, except when authorized under regulations made pursuant to law, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than six months, or both."

Schantag wrote in an e-mail, "The bill passed the Senate unanimously, but the House was 'too busy' to put it on the calendar before recess. We hope it yet passes before Jan. 20."

An arrest record for Lee in Fulton County, Ga., obtained on PublicData.com, shows a conviction for two counts of bad checks and a sentence to 24 months' probation. Another conviction in a judicial offense category of embezzle, for theft by conversion, received a sentence of four years' probation and a $600 fine.

Lester Dunn, a World War II veteran who went ashore Day 1 of the invasion of Normandy and has served as commander of the Disabled American Veterans, said there were problems when Lee came into the Lubbock organization.

"Immediately he wanted to take over everything," Dunn said. "I was the commander of the chapter at that time, and we had our problems. I set him down and told him if he wanted to be a member of this chapter, that's fine, but don't come in thinking that immediately you are going to get my job. ... 'I don't think you are going to get anywhere.' "

To comment on this story:

ray.westbrook@lubbockonline.com t 766-8711

AND THE EDITORIAL IN TODAY'S PAPER:
Setting the record straight after some difficult lessons learned

I read Clarence Lee's story Friday. It sounded like a great story in our afternoon planning meeting, when we discussed the next day's paper. It was, and we featured it prominently as part of our Veterans Day package on Saturday's front page.

Unfortunately, it wasn't true.

The first e-mail came in Saturday morning, from a woman in Arizona, who wrote, "I think you'd better do fact checking on the 'Vietnam Veteran Full of Life Despite Nine Months of Torture' story by Ray Westbrook. I can't find either of the names discussed in the story on any Vietnam Casualty/POW lists."

More e-mails came in Sunday and Monday ... some ripping us for allowing this to happen.

Terry Greenberg

I explained to these folks ... who contacted us from a number of different states ... that we had been given the idea from a respected member of our community who had given us good tips in the past. If it was not true, we would set the record straight. Once we told them that, these folks immediately offered to help us get the real story.

In the back of my mind, I hoped Lee could provide some proof to show his story was real. But he could not. As you have already read in our front-page story today, he told Ray Westbrook he was sorry and would never do it again.

I would hope we would never again be duped.

But how could this happen, and why didn't we use databases that could have confirmed Lee's story?

Ray Westbrook has been writing stories for 46 years. Karen Brehm, our assistant managing editor for news and features, has been in the business for 32 years, and I've got 29 years at daily newspapers. Ray wrote the story; Karen and I read it. So did others.

We sat down to discuss this Monday morning. In all those years we'd never had a veteran lie to us - that we know of. It never crossed our minds that someone would do this. It never crossed our minds that we'd have to check.

I learned a lot Monday, especially from Mary Schantag of the P.O.W. Network in Missouri. Apparently there are more and more Americans who say they were prisoners of war.

Yes, we were deceived. But we also allowed ourselves to be used, and I take the responsibility for that. There's an old line in our business: "If your mother tells you she loves you, check it out." To readers and veterans, you have my apology.

Fool me once, shame on you ... fool me twice ...

If I'm angry about anything, though, it's this: Whenever I now hear a veteran tell a story, I'll wonder if it's true. That's sad.

One final thought: Some of the people who sent e-mails about this said we were courageous for following up and fixing this. That's not courage ... that's simply telling the truth ... something we thought we did on Saturday.

Courage? That's what real POWs and veterans have showed this country for more than 200 years.

TERRY GREENBERG is editor of The Avalanche-Journal. Contact him at (806) 766-8700 or terry.greenberg@lubbockonline.com.

That'll work. Thanks...

ping

thank you

Ping to followup article at #123...

Thanks for the ping.....

One final thought: Some of the people who sent e-mails about this said we were courageous for following up and fixing this. That's not courage ... that's simply telling the truth ... something we thought we did on Saturday.

Courage? That's what real POWs and veterans have showed this country for more than 200 years.

Amen! Thank heavens for the knowledgeable people who can set things straight.

BTTT

Nice.

Nice.

Fast, too.

This Internet thing has potential.

It wasn't too long ago that touchy-feely bilge emanating from the MSM would go unchallenged.

Thank God we now have the internet and many more informed members of the citizenry who are increasingly challenging the leftist media propaganda mill.

Thanks, Interesting Times. You're a true watchdog for truth.

Leni

Thanks, Interesting Times. You're a true watchdog for truth.

I'm glad to have helped, but there were at least eight others doing the same thing.

These days, guys who like to tell whoppers about their military service should consider avoiding reporters.

POSER retraction at #123

Good thing AlGore thought of it!

Thanks for the ping.....now if we could just get kerry and murtha to tell the truth.....that they were in fact REMF"s.....

Thanks for the update. Good work!

Kudos to you for posting the info on your cousin. We can honor his memory for giving his all in Vietnam.

"the Marines over at www.TogetherWeServed.com were on it immediately. I think they raised the red flag first"

" Sniff, Sniff. I dunno. Can't find his name on this list of POWs. The story is too pat, it WOULD make a great movie, in fact I think it's made several. I'm calling preliminary bullsh*t.

18 posted on 11/11/2006 8:25:19 AM PST by jordan8"

What time did they first post that it was a scam, over at TWS?

Until I see some times it seems like jordan8 should be noted as the first to call BS, and then he kept after it with his follow up posts.

Did the newspapers correction article overlook FR's contribution?

This Internet thing has potential.

LOL, ya think?

Good job to you and the others that vetted this story. I just started reading the thread today.