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Iraq invokes memories of Iwo Jima
Contra Costa Times ^ | 11/5/6 | ROBERT HALLSTROM

Posted on 11/05/2006 8:58:36 AM PST by SmithL

I SAW THE PROMO ON TV for the new movie about the battle over Iwo Jima, way back in World War II. Clint Eastwood directed the film, and he was quoted as saying that the film depicts some of the sacrifices our fighting men made for their country during that battle.

For those of you who aren't students of that war, Iwo Jima is pretty much the hands-down winner when the old men gather to argue over which was the toughest battle in that conflict. When planning that invasion, the military brass figured they could capture the island in just a few days, and they predicted the casualty rate would be relatively low. They were wrong.

Since the brass are never the ones who invade an island, they left it to the guys who actually do the fighting to make those sacrifices. They landed 77,000 Marines on that tiny island to roust out the Japanese. The intense battle lasted 36 days and when it finally ended, 6,825 American soldiers were dead and nearly 20,000 had been wounded.

They handed out more Congressional Medals of Honor at that place than any other battle in the war. But when questioned, to a man the survivors claimed that the true heroes were the guys who didn't come home.

You certainly cannot fail to recognize such sacrifice. But in the midst of all this celebration of the American heroes, does anyone ever consider the bravery and sacrifice made by those men on the other side?

The Japanese brass put somewhere between 18,000 to 21,000 men on that island to defend it, and they were expected to fight to the death. They instructed each man to kill 10 Americans before he was, in turn, killed. And those men tried their best to do just that. Japanese religion and culture decreed that a soldier who died in battle would be honored. To surrender brought only dishonor. After those 36 days, 216 Japanese soldiers had surrendered. The rest were dead.

That the Marines would eventually capture the island was conceded, but the defenders' plan was to make the battle so costly to the enemy that the Americans would reconsider their plan to invade the mainland of Japan and settle for a negotiated end to the war.

Such a reconsideration did, in fact, come to pass. Our government decided the 1 million casualties we would incur just wasn't worth it. But rather than settle for negotiated peace, we dropped two atomic bombs and gained the unconditional surrender we wanted.

Not long after Sept. 11, 2001, it dawned on me that the last time we fought a war against people who thought they would gain honor by fighting to the death, we had to nuke them. But again we are faced with enemies who would gladly martyr themselves in order to kill us. Americans have trouble with this type of thinking because we like to come home alive from our wars. We don't really know how to deal with folks such as these.

We haven't pulled our nuclear weapons out of their holsters in more than 61 years. So far, we haven't even been tempted to use them in this current war. Heck, we can't even agree on whether we should be fighting this war, or even if it can be called a war.

The upcoming elections are pretty much a referendum on whether we think this is a war, or not. One side certainly thinks we are at war. The opposition says we aren't and don't need to be. The bulk of the media has been arguing for a long time that we shouldn't be, but they have their own agenda. Our enemy lately had been planning its strategy just for them because that is oh so easy. And this is working to mold public opinion.

I'm no longer sure what I think. I suppose we could hand the reins over to the opposition so they would end the fighting and then give it some time.

We will certainly find out one way or another, eventually.

Maybe our enemies are just talk, and they will fade away. Or maybe they will regroup and be back with a vengeance. Does anyone have a better idea how we resolve this question, other than to let it play out? The problem, it is sad to say, is that next time they will have nukes, too. I wonder if they will show the same restraint that we have?


TOPICS: Editorial; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: iwojima
Hallstrom gets it!
1 posted on 11/05/2006 8:58:37 AM PST by SmithL
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To: SmithL

We Were One: Shoulder to Shoulder With the Marines Who Took Fallujah (Hardcover)
by Patrick K. O'Donnell
http://www.amazon.com/We-Were-One-Shoulder-Fallujah/dp/0306814692
Hardcover: 244 pages
Publisher: Da Capo Press (October 30, 2006)

Book Description
A riveting first-hand account of the fierce battle for Fallujah and the Marines who fought there--a story of brotherhood and sacrifice in a platoon of heroes
The platoon included four pairs of best friends. Each of the four would lose a best friend forever.

Five months after being deployed to Iraq, Lima Company's 1st Platoon found itself in Fallujah, embroiled in some of the most intense house-to-house, hand-to-hand combat since World War II. Civilians were used as human shields or as bait to lure soldiers into buildings rigged with explosives; suicide bombers approached from every corner hoping to die and take Americans with them; radical insurgents, high on adrenaline, fought to the death. The Marines of the 1st Platoon (part of 3rd Battalion, 1st Marine Regiment) were among the first to fight in Fallujah, and they bore the brunt of this epic battle. When it was over, the platoon had suffered thirty-five casualties, including four dead.

This is their story.

Award-winning author and historian Patrick O'Donnell stood shoulder-to-shoulder with this modern band of brothers as they marched and fought through the streets of Fallujah, and he stayed with them as the casualties mounted. O'Donnell captures not only the sights, sounds, and smells of the gritty street combat, but also the human drama of young men in a close-knit platoon fighting for their lives--and the lives of their buddies. We Were One chronicles the 1st Platoon's story, from its formation at Camp Pendleton in California to its near destruction in the smoldering ruins of Fallujah.

We Were One is an unforgettable portrait of the new "Greatest Generation."

With 16 pages of extraordinary photographs from the front lines of the Battle for Fallujah

From the Publisher
"Here in these gripping pages is the Iraq War's fiercest battle, seen from the adrenaline-charged vantage of a few Marine buddies who are part of the next "Greatest Generation." We Were One is feelingly narrated by an intrepid war historian who risked his own life to capture every raw minute of their story."--Hampton Sides, author of Blood and Thunder and Ghost Soldiers

"A magnificent tale of combat--mixing valor, grit, love, blood and sacrifice. This book defines what it means to be a Marine grunt."--Bing West, author of The March Up and No True Glory

"We Were One is a dramatic tale of courage, hardship and the extraordinarily difficult challenges faced by a gallant Marine unit in one of the world's most deadly places. Patrick O'Donnell brilliantly and compassionately recounts the story of our American sons called upon to fight, bleed, die, and survive in a hostile land."--Carlo D'Este, author of Patton: A Genius For War

"Pat O'Donnell was with us on the ground in Fallujah--house to house. His story is historically accurate and describes the greatest personal and professional test of our lives. We Were One is destined to be a classic of urban close combat, and honors the memory of all who made the ultimate sacrifice for their brother Marines. I am deeply thankful that Pat kept his oath to Lima Company."--LtCol Willy Buhl, CO Task Force 3/1, Operation AL FAJR

"As an embedded journalist in an Infantry Platoon, O'Donnell paints an authentic picture of our Nation's most precious assets--the Marine Riflemen--engaged in one of their fiercest fights. We Were One is a gritty, boots-on-the-ground account that enables readers to witness the overwhelming will and courage of Marines as they move against the enemy."--J.N. Mattis, Lieutenant General, U.S. Marine Corps, Commanding General, I Marine Expeditionary Force

About the Author
Patrick K. O'Donnell is a combat historian and the author of three previous books: Beyond Valor, winner of the prestigious William E. Colby Award for Outstanding Military History; Into the Rising Sun; and Operatives, Spies, and Saboteurs. He is also the founder of the Drop Zone, an award-winning online oral history Web site. He lives in Virginia.

Looks like a veryy good book. Starting to see more of this kind of book.


2 posted on 11/05/2006 9:06:32 AM PST by Valin (http://www.irey.com/)
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To: SmithL; 2111USMC; 2nd Bn, 11th Mar; 68 grunt; A.A. Cunningham; ASOC; AirForceBrat23; Ajnin; ...

Ping


3 posted on 11/05/2006 9:08:26 AM PST by freema (Marine FRiend, 1stCuz2xRemoved, Mom, Aunt, Sister, Friend, Wife, Daughter, Niece)
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To: SmithL
But again we are faced with enemies who would gladly martyr themselves in order to kill us. Americans have trouble with this type of thinking because we like to come home alive from our wars. We don't really know how to deal with folks such as these.

B.S.! It's the Left, MSM, and many politicians who have trouble with this type of thinking/enemy, not the American people.

4 posted on 11/05/2006 9:11:27 AM PST by DTogo (I haven't left the GOP, the GOP left me.)
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To: All; SmithL



.


The Words:
http://www.Freerepublic.com/~ALOHARONNIE


The Pictures
http://www.RickRescorla.com/The%20Statue.htm


The Heroism
http://www.ArmchairGeneral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24361


.


5 posted on 11/05/2006 9:14:45 AM PST by ALOHA RONNIE ("ALOHA RONNIE" Guyer/Veteran-"WE WERE SOLDIERS" Battle of IA DRANG-1965 http://www.lzxray.com.)
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To: SmithL
The fact that you no longer know what to think leads me to believe that this guy as wise as he is in describing the situation is willing to let himself have some doubt as to our mission in Iraq, Afghanistan, as well as other terror targets.

The MSM does this to people, the drum beat against our President and the military slowly erode our conviction and lead us to rethink what needs to be done.

We defiantly don't have the will of our forefathers in this country, it seems almost a matter of time before we succumb to the head in the sand crowd and then the enemy will have us right where they want us.
6 posted on 11/05/2006 9:14:57 AM PST by Duke Wayne
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To: DTogo

Well said! But then the DBM has trouble understanding many things, like courage, self-sacrifice....


7 posted on 11/05/2006 9:17:53 AM PST by Valin (http://www.irey.com/)
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To: Duke Wayne

I just got back from the supermarket, and the headline on the cover of this week's Newsweek:

"We're losing. But is Iraq lost?"

Think about that. The second-biggest newsmagazine in the country, on its front cover, just comes out and says it: "We're losing." Never mind that the terrorists are dying like flies. Never mind that Saddam Hussein is going to soon do the final rope dance. Never mind that tens of millions of Iraqis can do something they couldn't do before--vote. Never mind all the thousands of good things that we've brought to places all over Iraq--schools, water, power, security, freedom from fear, freedom to grow. To them, "we're losing."

If you ever needed a reason why the liberal influence over the media needs to be not just shunned, but DESTROYED, this is it.

"We're losing."

I'd hate to see how these sons of bitches define "winning." It probably involves bowing to Mecca five times a day.

}:-)4


8 posted on 11/05/2006 9:24:31 AM PST by Moose4 (They caught me white and nerdy.)
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To: SmithL
After those 36 days, 216 Japanese soldiers had surrendered. The rest were dead.

Fact is most of those who surrendered were actually Koreans, working age men brought to Iwo as slave labor. Iwo Jima was essentially a fortress with a vast tunnel network connecting all the gun portals. Barracks, mess halls, weapon & ammunition storage areas, hospitals, all underground. The Japanese with Korean labor gangs spent over two years preparing the island for an amphibious assault landing by the Americans.

9 posted on 11/05/2006 9:28:25 AM PST by BluH2o
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To: SmithL
"That the Marines would eventually capture the island was conceded, but the defenders' plan was to make the battle so costly to the enemy that the Americans would reconsider their plan to invade the mainland of Japan and settle for a negotiated end to the war.

Such a reconsideration did, in fact, come to pass. Our government decided the 1 million casualties we would incur just wasn't worth it. But rather than settle for negotiated peace, we dropped two atomic bombs and gained the unconditional surrender we wanted."

So the Japanese, by making Iwo Jima so costly as to avoid invasion of the mainland, actually, unknown to them, forced Truman to choose between a "negotiated" or atomic ending of the war.

Hence the saying about the danger you face in "not knowing what you don't know".

10 posted on 11/05/2006 9:29:21 AM PST by LZ_Bayonet
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To: LZ_Bayonet
the liberals aren't going to be happy till they are in power. They could care less if we lose 10-20,000 American citizens. As long as they can suck off the government nipple and play "power" politics, they're happy. F'ck them.

Even if a nuke went off, the libs would hold Bush responsible and not the terrorists. They hold AMERICA in contempt. They are useless, we can never satisfy them....so they should be ignored. They should be marginalized as the race-baiting, homosexual advocating, fetal murdering, legal blackmailing, judicial advocating pussies that they are.

Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

11 posted on 11/05/2006 9:52:02 AM PST by Dick Vomer (liberals suck......... but it depends on what your definition of the word "suck" is.)
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To: Dick Vomer
They should be marginalized as the race-baiting, homosexual advocating, fetal murdering, legal blackmailing, judicial advocating pussies that they are.

<LOL> I wish you would quit equivocating and crayfishing and tell us what you really think!

12 posted on 11/05/2006 10:53:44 AM PST by lentulusgracchus ("Whatever." -- sinkspur)
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To: SmithL

Now is probably a a good time to mention one important difference between the Japanese Imperial armed forces and Islamic jiahdists. I have seen articles where Japanese WW II veterans are outraged when Kamikaze squadrons are compared to terrorists, such as the murders of 9/11.



The first Kamikaze squadrons appeared at Leyte Gulf in October 1944, when American battle groups were nearly impervious to successful attack. The Navy’s combat patrol aircraft and anti-aircraft guns, down to 40mm quad mounts, were radar directed and coordinated. The proximity fuse for 3” and 5” guns nearly guaranteed a hit. Japanese pilot training and aircraft quality lagged far behind. The Japanese Kamikaze pilot flew into as lethal a combination of human ingenuity and material superiority as could be found in WW II, but the special attack squadrons were created, because the Japanese were determined to get through and make some hits.



In comparison the deluded homicide bombers arising from Muslim heresies, evade police and military to find the most vulnerable innocents available. Their leaders not only murder these people, but also murder the spiritual viability of a billion Muslim believers through philosophies, which only began a rise to a dominate position when the Wahhabis allied with the House of Saud.


13 posted on 11/05/2006 11:27:11 AM PST by Retain Mike
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To: Retain Mike

The first Kamikazes were Americans, so impressed with the bravery of Men of Torpedo 8 at Midway were the Japanese that they decided to launch similar attacks.


14 posted on 11/05/2006 12:19:42 PM PST by usmcobra (I sing Karaoke the way it was meant to be sung, drunk, badly and in Japanese, that why I don't sing.)
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To: usmcobra
Cool homepage. Did your grandmother really wreck your restored Mustang?

As for VT-8 I doubt that the attack survivor, Ens George Gay thought of himself as a kamikaze/martyr anymore than the Marines that faced and survived Iwo, Saipan, Guadalcanal, etc.
15 posted on 11/05/2006 2:35:53 PM PST by Jacquerie (Democrats soil institutions.)
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To: freema
Thanks for the ping. Perhaps this book shall find a place on my bookself in due time.
I have read many historical accounts of the WWII battles in both Europe and the Pacific. In my mind it is hard to place one gallant hard won battle over another. Guadacanal, D-Day, the bloody battles throughout France and into Germany, New Guinee, the Phillipeans, Makin Island..., the lists are long.
We stand at attention and remember all those that served and so many that did not return to their loved ones, and those that made it home, often never to be the same either by lost limbs and eyes, or in the mind.
To them may our loving Lord give rest as HE takes them to his abode. A gentle loving place, that will see no sign of wars, where there will be no crying and diminshed spririt, but only an eternity of joys we cannot yet fantom.
Until the Lord of Hosts returns to make this planet right, however, we shall continue to support those that go into battle to battle evil, and bring a the God given right of freedom to those that are oppressed.
So many serve with HONOR.
16 posted on 11/05/2006 4:52:30 PM PST by Marine_Uncle (Honor must be earned)
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