Posted on 11/04/2006 10:37:15 PM PST by chuckles
Well, usually, if I wait long enough, somebody will say what I want said, and bring the topic to a head. Not this time. I've had it with waiting.
Kerry joined the Navy in 1966. You usually join for a 6 year hitch. He got an Honorable Discharge in 1978. Is there anybody out there with any power that has a problem with that? What happened to 1972?
I have written every news organization I can and sent e-mails to reporters until I give up. I went down each show on Fox News, even Cavuto. Nothing, Nada. I wrote the Swift Boat web site and asked them to bring it up in one of their interviews. Nothing.... I don't get it. If I were a hard hitting news reporter that had a chance to interview Kerry, That would be the first question out of my pie hole. The second, of course would be about signing a "180". The third question, just for grins, would be to ask which 7 Senators he voted to assassinate in the VVAW. I have sent the PDF file of the FBI report that shows he was there at that meeting when they took the vote.
Any ideas on how to get this looked into? Before you know it, he will have a committee looking into his 2008 run. He needs to be squashed yesterday, not 4-8 years from now. He should be impeached for treason, if it turns out he got a dishonarable discharge and Carter gave him a "Get out of the Dumpster" pass.
I can't beleive this guy has made it this long, but hey, it's Mass. They have Kennedy and Fwank also. It must be in the water.
And that will never happen.
No matter what, the boy has presence, charisma.
That boy, no matter where he ended up, seems to be a person of his own, for good or bad, or just someone we can take sides on, like a politician.
I'm glad he was captured on film.
He was an officer, not enlisted. Only enlisted get honorable discharge. Officers have many years in reserve after active service. In this instance there is nothing unusual. Sorry.
I understand your frustration. If it's any consolation, when it comes to being more than a Senator, Kerry's toast. He will never be President, and put his second foot into the grave, so to speak, with that defiant non-apology. It's not as big a millstone as Chappaquiddick, but it's enough to get the job done.
So give us the facts. It is a little hard to believe you just solved one of the great questions, about the democrat candidate of 2004 by pointing out that he was an officer.
"He was an officer, not enlisted. Only enlisted get honorable discharge. Officers have many years in reserve after active service. In this instance there is nothing unusual. Sorry."
I'd like to see kerry resign in disgrace.....That'll never happen. You need a sense of shame to feel disgrace. This hollow buffon has no sense of shame or humor.
I don't know the details in Kerry's instance, but from my own experience I had done my 8 years of Reserve in advance of my AD. So when my AD time was up I just took off the uniform and quit going to work (actually they hired me as a civilian the next week). So the years may add up, if he did his 4 years AD he was obligated to do and then another 8 in reserve. So, the years may not be as big of a deal as you are implying. I in no way mean to support Kerry in anything, I just think this issue is a waste of energy.
Where did you get Karl's election day plan? That's highly classified.
If you notice the date 1978 which his "Honorable Discharge" is dated, that is the time period from the infamous Georgia nutball president's "Amnesty" edict for draft dodgers, etc. This is when Mr. Kerry got his 1972 GD upgraded to Honorable. He's a lying bastard and he won't sign his SF180 because the information in his files will show what I believe is true.
...The final element in Kerry's absolute failure to meet the standards our military deserves in a commander-in-chief, in this retired officer's opinion, is in the factual nature of Kerry's discharge (although I would love for some resourceful citizen find a way to republish and distribute Kerry's radical, anti-American tome The New Soldier -- which my publisher Regnery Publishing has offered to do for free -- and hand it out at the polls on November 2).As for every veteran, the truth will be found the form DD214, the official Department of Defense document of release from military obligation given to Kerry when he exited military service on July 1, 1972. It is conspicuously absent from the documents released so far. Everyone serving in the military receives a DD214 the day they separate or retire from service. My suspicion along with a growing number of military personnel is that Kerry received an "other than honorable" discharge in the early 1970s as a consequence of his vehement anti-US, anti-military activities with the Vietnam Veterans Against the War and his potentially treasonous tête-à-têtes with North Vietnamese Communist officials in Paris. If not, let him release his records. If so, America should demand the release...
With what we do know, Kerry's paperwork doesn't pass the smell test. The few records so far released by his campaign identify FOUR "honorable" discharge dates (every other military member I know, myself included, received one). Kerry's released documentation notes discharges of January 3, 1970, February 16, 1978, July 13, 1978, and, most peculiarly, March 12, 2001. He has as many discharge dates as months he spent in Vietnam. In my twenty years in the Air Force and through the thousands of people I came to know and serve with, I have never heard of anyone in the military having more than one DD 214 with one discharge date. Kerry, according to his own campaign, has at least four.
There are five potential classes of discharge: Honorable, General, Other than Honorable, Bad Conduct, and Dishonorable. Why does it matter? It's the sum total of one's military service boiled down in a phrase. Most employers require former military members to attach their DD214 to their employment application. Anything other than "Honorable" is seen as a character flaw. Bad Conduct and Dishonorable obviously are causes for additional concern...
Here's the crux of the confusion. On February 18, 1966, Kerry obligated himself to a six-year commitment to the Navy, and to the tenets of the military judicial system, with an expiration date of July 1, 1972. On January 3, 1970, Kerry asked for, and was granted, an early transfer from his active duty service to the Naval Reserve. As a reservist, he was still under oath as a commissioned officer and subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice. He still carried a military ID card and was still a member of the U.S. armed forces. Kerry's service commitment came to an end, as scheduled, in July, 1972. As such, a DD Form 214 with a discharge status was due.
Kerry's "honorable" discharge, though, doesn't come until February 16, 1978. Why? Possibly because President Jimmy Carter, through Proclamation 4483, granted a full and complete pardon to all military personnel who committed offenses and violations of the Military Selective Service Act during the Vietnam War. He pardoned deserters, draft dodgers and those who went absent without leave (AWOL).
Interestingly, Kerry's honorable discharge letter from the Department of the Navy, dated February 16, 1978, notes that Kerry's discharge was taken "by direction of the President" and "with the approved recommendations of a board of officers convened under the authority of reference [10 USC Sec. 1163] to examine the official records of officers of the Naval Reserve.." This is extremely unusual. Review boards are not convened for discharges and certainly not "by direction of the President." The "authority of reference," 10 USC Sec. 1163, refers to "the grounds for involuntary separation from the service." What was being reviewed, then, was Kerry's involuntary separation from the service or, more likely, the disposition of his service. This simply would not have occurred if Kerry's discharge in 1972 had been "honorable." Why did Kerry's discharge meet a board? In all likelihood, he sought relief to improve his status of discharge from "dishonorable" or "less than honorable" to "honorable." If he signed his Form 180, we'd know. If he'd release his DD214 from 1972, we'd know.
Finally, and most bizarre of all of Kerry's military records so far released is a DD 215, "Correction to DD Form 214," initiated for John Forbes Kerry on March 12, 2001. Among other things, the new form changes Kerry's official US Navy separation date to March 1, 1970! As noted earlier, he wasn't eligible for discharge until July, 1972, and was so. Why, then, the new document in 2001? Why, 29 years later, is there the need to correct or change the record?
Here's why. By moving Kerry's discharge date to early in 1970, all of Kerry's post-Vietnam activities would be theoretically exempt from military justice. By moving his discharge date to March of 1970, Kerry's meeting with the enemy, North Vietnamese Communists in Paris in May of 1970, would be exempt. His joining the Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW) in June of 1970 and his radical, anti-war anti-government activities that followed would be exempt. The Winter Soldier Investigation in January, 1971, and Kerry's infamous testimony to Congress in April, 1971 would be exempt. His arrest for his protest activities in May, 1971, would be exempt. His attendance at a VVAW meeting in Kansas City where the assassination of several prominent and hawkish U.S. senators was discussed and voted on would be exempt....
Might try pinging Fedora. He's pretty much an expert in all things Kerry, imo.
Somebody has already done plenty. He is investigative reporter Thomas Lipscomb:
His article, which makes obvious that Kerry did not have an honorable discharge, was published by the NY Sun a few days before the election in 2004. Naturally the rest of the MSM did its best to keep it quiet.
The most telling point IMO is what Lipscomb reveals about Kerry's rejection from Harvard Law School--a surprise for someone of his lineage. Jean-Fraude claims it was due to the lateness of his application, but Lipscomb found someone who was on the admissions committee back in the 70s. That individual indicated that the real reason was concern that Jean-Fraude would not be eligible for admission to the bar in any state because he was not honorably discharged from the military.
Here is the piece:
http://www.nysun.com/article/4040
No... I'm saying what I'm saying..
Officers, upon resigning their commission, most often receive an Honorable Discharge.
What does this mean exactly?
Wow! Thanks for that post, it explains a lot. Perhaps the original questioner should send *that* post to all his contacts?
Exactly what I said..
Your meaning is not clear.
For example...why "highly suspicious"?
WHO are you suspicious of and why are you suspicious?
Your comment is innuendo without any meaning to the reader.
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