Is God dead? Atheism finds a market in U.S

CHICAGO (Reuters) - A fresh wave of atheistic books has hit the market this autumn, some climbing onto best-seller lists in what proponents see as a backlash against the way religion is entwined in politics.

"Religion is fragmenting the human community," said Sam Harris, author of "Letter to a Christian Nation," No. 11 on the New York Times nonfiction list on October 15.

There is a "huge visibility and political empowerment of religion. President George W. Bush uses his first veto to deny funding for stem cell research and scientists everywhere are horrified," he said in an interview.

Religious polarization is part of many world conflicts, he said, including those involving Israel and Iran, "but it's never discussed. I consider it the story of our time, what religion is doing to us. But there are very few people calling a spade a spade."

His "Letter," a blunt 96-page pocket-sized book condensing arguments against belief in quick-fire volleys, appeared on the Times list just ahead of "The God Delusion," by Richard Dawkins, a scientist at Oxford University and long-time atheist.

In addition, Harris' "The End of Faith," a 2004 work which prompted his "Letter" as a response to critics, is holding the No. 13 Times spot among nonfiction paperbacks.

Publishers Weekly said the business has seen "a striking number of impassioned critiques of religion -- any religion, but Christianity in particular," a probably inevitable development given "the super-soaking of American politics and culture with religion in recent years."

Paul Kurtz, founder of the Council for Secular Humanism and publisher of Free Inquiry magazine, said, "The American public is really disturbed about the role of religion in U.S. government policy, particularly with the Bush administration and the breakdown of church-state separation, and secondly with the conflict in the Mideast."

They are turning to free thought and secular humanism and publishers have recognized a taste for that, he added.

"I've published 45 books, many critical of religion," Kurtz said. "I think in America we have this notion of tolerance ... it was considered bad taste to criticize religion. But I think now there are profound questions about age-old hatreds."

The Rev. James Halstead, chairman of the Department of Religious Studies at Chicago's DePaul University, says the phenomenon is really "a ripple caused by the book publishing industry."

"These books cause no new thought or moral commitment. The arguments are centuries old," he told Reuters. Some believers, he added, "are no better. Their conception of God, the Divine-Human-World relationship are much too simplistic and materialistic."

Too often, he said, the concept "God" is misused "to legitimate the self and to beat up other people ... to rehash that same old theistic and atheistic arguments is a waste of time, energy and paper."

Dr. Timothy Larsen, professor of theology at Wheaton College in Illinois, says any growth in interest in atheism is a reflection of the strength of religion -- the former being a parasite that feeds off the latter.

That happened late in the 19th century America when an era of intense religious conviction gave rise to voices like famed agnostic Robert Ingersoll, he said.

For Christianity, he said, "It's very important for people of faith to realize how unsettling and threatening their posture and rhetoric and practice can feel to others. So it's an opportunity for the church to look at itself and say 'we have done things ... that make other people uncomfortable.' It is an opportunity for dialogue."

Larsen, author of the soon-to-be-published "Crisis of Doubt," added that in some sense atheism is "a disappointment with God and with the church. Some of these are people we wounded that we should be handling pastorally rather than with aggressive knockdown debate."

These are also probably some of the same people Harris says he's hearing from after his two books.

"Many, many readers feel utterly isolated in their communities," he said. "They are surrounded by cult members, from their point of view, and are unable to disclose their feelings."

"I get a lot of e-mail just expressing incredible relief that they are not alone ... relieved that I'm writing something that couldn't be said," Harris added.

When Adam was formed from the dust he was not alive until the breath of life which means 'soul' was breathed into his nostrils.

The flesh body is the vessel that the soul is housed during the flesh life. As Solomon says in the book called Ecclesiastes 12:6-7 the two different bodies are described.

The whole book of Ecclesiastes is about the two bodies, the man under the Sun and that spirit body that dwells within until the flesh dies.

Ecclesiastes 1:8 All things are full labour; man cannot utter it; the eye is not satisfied with seeing, nor the ear filled with hearing.

9. The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

10. Is there any thing whereof it may be said, 'See, this is new?' it hath been already of *OLD* time, which was before us.

11 There is NO remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after.

Salvation was NOT offered to any soul/child of the Heavenly Father until Christ paid the price.

Hebrews 2:14 For as much then as the children are *partakers* of flesh and blood, He also Himself likewise took part of the same; (flesh and blood) that through death He might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

The devil already has been sentenced to death, Ezekiel 28:12-19 describes the creation of the devil, that anointed cherub that covereth, who was in Eden, the garden of God, that is described as "perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee."

v 18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick;

therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.

This has NOT happened yet, the execution of this sentence and is yet reserved for a future time.

Isaiah 14:12 describe the same but includes a broader slice as to what role the devil has been allowed and will be allowed to play.

Paul speaks about *predestination* and Paul demonstrated that role of what predestination is describing. So when did this predestination take place???

Christ showed a few of his disciples what would be after flesh with the transfiguration of Moses and Elijah. Moses and Elijah still appeared the same but in different bodies.

Predestination indicates that souls already have a history prior to being placed in this flesh body and there were some called the saints that already passed the test of salvation, but were still required to pass through this flesh age. Jeremiah is told that he was known before he was placed in his mother's womb. It is written that before they were born Jacob I love and Esau I hated, that IS not a normal emotion to have hate for one twin and love for another prior to being born. There has to be cause and explanation for the love and the hate.

"This isn't making sense. By definition, the Omniscient cannot learn anything. Either Jesus was God or he was not."

Oh! Now I can see where you're coming from. Wow.

Here's the thing. There have been all kind of outstanding people in this world, forceful personalities, charismatic leaders, who when they walked in a crowded room, people would say, "Who is he?" And that's the very nubbin of it all, the very question Jesus challenges us with: "Who do you say that I am?" (Matthew 16:15)

Jesus is the only person I've ever heard of, though, who was so compelling, so exceptional, yet so baffling, that everybody he encountered ended up asking, not just "Who is he?" but "WHAT is he?"

The rather astounding answer is that Jesus is one person who is truly God and truly Man, not 50/50 but 100/100.

You apparently have done some thinking about Jesus as Divine person, eternal, infinite, omniscient, and so forth, but have not quite grasped the full implications of the fact that He is man. As man, he is limited and finite, bound by time and space. He was really a zygote in his mother's womb, and only gradually developed his brain and bone and blood, and organs and systems, just as we do; and was born with an immature mind knowing only what a human baby knows, as Scripture says, "like us in all things but sin."

Do not expect to understand this quickly and effortlessly, because it is completely counter-intuitive and unparalleled in human experience. The Catechism says this:

"This human soul that the Son of God assumed is endowed with a true human knowledge. As such, this knowledge could not in itself be unlimited: it was exercised in the historical conditions of his existence in space and time. This is why the Son of God could, when he became man, "increase in wisdom and in stature, and in favor with God and man",and would even have to inquire for himself about what one in the human condition can learn only from experience. This corresponded to the reality of his voluntary emptying of himself, taking "the form of a slave".

(That whole section of the Catechism, which I've linked to, is very rich with knowledge and deserves a slow, careful reading.)

This is a mystery. This does not mean that we can't know anything about it, but that we can't know everything about it.

"For by his incarnation the Son of God has united Himself in some fashion with every man. He worked with human hands, he thought with a human mind, acted by human choice and loved with a human heart."

This can be found in a wonderful document of the Second Vatican Council, Gaudium et Spes ("Joy and Hope"), paragraph 22, about a fifth of the way down the page; once you click on the link, you can search the document using the phrase "with a human heart."

So yes: "He whom the whole universe cannot contain, was enclosed within the Virgin's womb, and became Man." And yes: the Omniscient had to learn to say "Ma-ma."

When looking at the context of the Bible God is definitely not a murderer.

The story of the flood tells all people except a few were corrupted. See, the society in which the Bible was describing was constantly doing "evil" in the sight of God. The society was so knee deep in crap it was hopeless to count on repentance from the parents or the offspring.

Remember, in Biblical terms God knows everything, the baby destroyed in the flood will become the person who will grow up "shooting the bird" at God with his actions. I take it God knew this and went Samuel Jackson on their sorry asses. A simple concept to grasp yet atheist get all orgasmic and ignorant in trying to point out the hypocrisy, crap, like believers have not heard this asinine argument before.

So what did God do, killed almost everyone and started over.

As for Joshua same damed thing except He used a human to carry out the killing. Oh, don't forget to include those who repented and yet were spared, especially the story of Jericho, atheist tend to leave little details like this out when making these types of arguments.

Hell, it's smart in that these were close tribes and the offspring would grow up to avenge their parents. Seemed like a strategic and logical conclusion to reach. Wipe out your enemies, do this so the Hebrews could flourish in the area.

God is certainly far from being "political correct" or a peaceful Deity when the creation starts mocking and ignoring every rule He sets just to bring order and peace to human beings. Unfortunately God quite often makes it painfully aware on why He does things.

It is written that before they were born Jacob I love and Esau I hated, that IS not a normal emotion to have hate for one twin and love for another prior to being born.

Not true; it was AFTER they were born.

NIV Malachi 1:1-3
1. An oracle: The word of the LORD to Israel through Malachi.
2. "I have loved you," says the LORD. "But you ask, `How have you loved us?' "Was not Esau Jacob's brother?" the LORD says. "Yet I have loved Jacob,
3. but Esau I have hated, and I have turned his mountains into a wasteland and left his inheritance to the desert jackals."

and...

Romans 9:13

Just as it is written: "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."

But WHY??

NIV Genesis 25:19-34
19. This is the account of Abraham's son Isaac.   Abraham became the father of Isaac,
20. and Isaac was forty years old when he married Rebekah daughter of Bethuel the Aramean from Paddan Aram and sister of Laban the Aramean.
21. Isaac prayed to the LORD on behalf of his wife, because she was barren. The LORD answered his prayer, and his wife Rebekah became pregnant.
22. The babies jostled each other within her, and she said, "Why is this happening to me?" So she went to inquire of the LORD.
23. The LORD said to her, "Two nations are in your womb, and two peoples from within you will be separated; one people will be stronger than the other, and the older will serve the younger."
24. When the time came for her to give birth, there were twin boys in her womb.
25. The first to come out was red, and his whole body was like a hairy garment; so they named him Esau.
26. After this, his brother came out, with his hand grasping Esau's heel; so he was named Jacob. Isaac was sixty years old when Rebekah gave birth to them.
27. The boys grew up, and Esau became a skillful hunter, a man of the open country, while Jacob was a quiet man, staying among the tents.
28. Isaac, who had a taste for wild game, loved Esau, but Rebekah loved Jacob.
29. Once when Jacob was cooking some stew, Esau came in from the open country, famished.
30. He said to Jacob, "Quick, let me have some of that red stew! I'm famished!" (That is why he was also called Edom. )
31. Jacob replied, "First sell me your birthright."
32. "Look, I am about to die," Esau said. "What good is the birthright to me?"
33. But Jacob said, "Swear to me first." So he swore an oath to him, selling his birthright to Jacob.
34. Then Jacob gave Esau some bread and some lentil stew. He ate and drank, and then got up and left.   So Esau despised his birthright.

NIV Genesis 26:34-35
34. When Esau was forty years old, he married Judith daughter of Beeri the Hittite, and also Basemath daughter of Elon the Hittite.
35. They were a source of grief to Isaac and Rebekah.

NIV Genesis 27:41-46
41. Esau held a grudge against Jacob because of the blessing his father had given him. He said to himself, "The days of mourning for my father are near; then I will kill my brother Jacob."
42. When Rebekah was told what her older son Esau had said, she sent for her younger son Jacob and said to him, "Your brother Esau is consoling himself with the thought of killing you.
43. Now then, my son, do what I say: Flee at once to my brother Laban in Haran.
44. Stay with him for a while until your brother's fury subsides.
45. When your brother is no longer angry with you and forgets what you did to him, I'll send word for you to come back from there. Why should I lose both of you in one day?"
46. Then Rebekah said to Isaac, "I'm disgusted with living because of these Hittite women. If Jacob takes a wife from among the women of this land, from Hittite women like these, my life will not be worth living."

NIV Genesis 28:6-9
6. Now Esau learned that Isaac had blessed Jacob and had sent him to Paddan Aram to take a wife from there, and that when he blessed him he commanded him, "Do not marry a Canaanite woman,"
7. and that Jacob had obeyed his father and mother and had gone to Paddan Aram.
8. Esau then realized how displeasing the Canaanite women were to his father Isaac;
9. so he went to Ishmael and married Mahalath, the sister of Nebaioth and daughter of Ishmael son of Abraham, in addition to the wives he already had.

NIV Genesis 32:28
   Then the man said, "Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel, because you have struggled with God and with men and have overcome."

NIV Genesis 33:8-11
8. Esau asked, "What do you mean by all these droves I met?"   "To find favor in your eyes, my lord," he said.
9. But Esau said, "I already have plenty, my brother. Keep what you have for yourself."
10. "No, please!" said Jacob. "If I have found favor in your eyes, accept this gift from me. For to see your face is like seeing the face of God, now that you have received me favorably.
11. Please accept the present that was brought to you, for God has been gracious to me and I have all I need." And because Jacob insisted, Esau accepted it.

There has to be cause and explanation for the love and the hate.

Indeed! The Scriptures above point it out.

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