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Fact, Fable, and Darwin
One America ^ | 09-2004 | Rodney Stark

Posted on 09/15/2006 3:39:45 PM PDT by ofwaihhbtn

Fact, Fable, and Darwin

By Rodney Stark

I write as neither a creationist nor a Darwinist, but as one who knows what is probably the most disreputable scientific secret of the past century: There is no plausible scientific theory of the origin of species! Darwin himself was not sure he had produced one, and for many decades every competent evolutionary biologist has known that he did not. Although the experts have kept quiet when true believers have sworn in court and before legislative bodies that Darwin's theory is proven beyond any possible doubt, that's not what reputable biologists, including committed Darwinians, have been saying to one another.

Without question, Charles Darwin would be among the most prominent biologists in history even if he hadn't written The Origin of Species in 1859. But he would not have been deified in the campaign to "enlighten" humanity. The battle over evolution is not an example of how heroic scientists have withstood the relentless persecution of religious fanatics. Rather, from the very start it primarily has been an attack on religion by militant atheists who wrap themselves in the mantle of science.

When a thoroughly ideological Darwinist like Richard Dawkins claims, "The theory is about as much in doubt as that the earth goes round the sun," he does not state a fact, but merely aims to discredit a priori anyone who dares to express reservations about evolution. Indeed, Dawkins has written, "It is absolutely safe to say that, if you meet somebody who claims not to believe in evolution, that person is ignorant, stupid, or insane...."

That is precisely how "Darwin's Bulldog," Thomas Huxley, hoped intellectuals would react when he first adopted the tactic of claiming that the only choice is between Darwin and Bible literalism. However, just as one can doubt Max Weber's Protestant Ethic thesis without thereby declaring for Marxism, so too one may note the serious shortcomings of neo-Darwinism without opting for any rival theory. Modern physics provides a model of how science benefits from being willing to live with open questions rather than embracing obviously flawed conjectures.

What is most clear to me is that the Darwinian Crusade does not prove some basic incompatibility between religion and science. But the even more immediate reality is that Darwin's theory falls noticeably short of explaining the origin of species. Dawkins knows the many serious problems that beset a purely materialistic evolutionary theory, but asserts that no one except true believers in evolution can be allowed into the discussion, which also must be held in secret. Thus he chastises Niles Eldridge and Stephen Jay Gould, two distinguished fellow Darwinians, for giving "spurious aid and comfort to modern creationists."

Dawkins believes that, regardless of his or her good intentions, "if a reputable scholar breathes so much as a hint of criticism of some detail of Darwinian theory, that fact is seized upon and blown up out of proportion." While acknowledging that "the extreme rarity of transitional forms in the fossil record" is a major embarrassment for Darwinism, Stephen Jay Gould confided that this has been held as a "trade secret of paleontology" and acknowledged that the evolutionary diagrams "that adorn our textbooks" are based on "inference...not the evidence of fossils."

According to Steven Stanley, another distinguished evolutionist, doubts raised by the fossil record were "suppressed" for years. Stanley noted that this too was a tactic begun by Huxley, always careful not to reveal his own serious misgivings in public. Paleontologist Niles Eldridge and his colleagues have said that the history of life demonstrates gradual transformations of species, "all the while really knowing that it does not." This is not how science is conducted; it is how ideological crusades are run.

By Darwin's day it had long been recognized that the fossil evidence showed that there had been a progression in the biological complexity of organisms over an immense period of time. In the oldest strata, only simple organisms are observed. In more recent strata, more complex organisms appear. The biological world is now classified into a set of nested categories. Within each genus (mammals, reptiles, etc.) are species (dogs, horses, elephants, etc.) and within each species are many specific varieties, or breeds (Great Dane, Poodle, Beagle, etc.).

It was well-known that selective breeding can create variations within species. But the boundaries between species are distinct and firm--one species does not simply trail off into another by degrees. As Darwin acknowledged, breeding experiments reveal clear limits to selective breeding beyond which no additional changes can be produced. For example, dogs can be bred to be only so big and no bigger, let alone be selectively bred until they are cats. Hence, the question of where species come from was the real challenge and, despite the title of his famous book and more than a century of hoopla and celebration, Darwin essentially left it unanswered.

After many years spent searching for an adequate explanation of the origin of species, in the end Darwin fell back on natural selection, claiming that it could create new creatures too, if given im-mense periods of time. That is, organisms respond to their environmental circumstances by slowly changing (evolving) in the direction of traits beneficial to survival until, eventually, they are sufficiently changed to constitute a new species. Hence, new species originate very slowly, one tiny change after another, and eventually this can result in lemurs changing to humans via many intervening species.

Darwin fully recognized that a major weakness of this account of the origin of species involved what he and others referred to as the principle of "gradualism in nature." The fossil record was utterly inconsistent with gradualism. As Darwin acknowledged: "...why, if species have descended from other species by fine gradations, do we not everywhere see innumerable transitional forms? Why is not all nature in confusion instead of the species being, as we see them, well defined?"

Darwin offered two solutions. Transitional types are quickly replaced and hence would mainly only be observable in the fossil record. As for the lack of transitional types among the fossils, that was, Darwin admitted, "the most obvious and serious objection which can be urged against the theory."

Darwin dealt with this problem by blaming "the extreme imperfection of the geological record." "Only a small portion of the surface of the earth has been geologically explored, and no part with sufficient care." But, just wait, Darwin promised, the missing transitions will be found in the expected proportion when more research has been done. Thus began an intensive search for what the popular press soon called the "missing links."

Today, the fossil record is enormous compared to what it was in Darwin's day, but the facts are unchanged. The links are still missing; species appear suddenly and then remain relatively unchanged. As Steven Stanley reported: "The known fossil record...offers no evidence that the gradualistic model can be valid."

Indeed, the evidence has grown even more contrary since Darwin's day. "Many of the discontinuities [in the fossil record] tend to be more and more emphasized with increased collecting," noted the former curator of historical geology at the American Museum of Natural History. The history of most fossil species includes two features particularly inconsistent with gradualism, Stephen Jay Gould has acknowledged. The first problem is stasis. Most species exhibit no directional change during their tenure on earth. They appear in the fossil record looking much the same as when they disappear. The second problem is sudden appearance. Species do not arise gradually by the steady transformation of ancestors, they appear "fully formed."

These are precisely the objections raised by many biologists and geologists in Darwin's time--it was not merely that Darwin's claim that species arise through eons of natural selection was offered without supporting evidence, but that the available evidence was overwhelmingly contrary. Unfortunately, rather than concluding that a theory of the origin of species was yet to be accomplished, many scientists urged that Darwin's claims must be embraced, no matter what.

In keeping with Darwin's views, evolutionists have often explained new species as the result of the accumulation of tiny, favorable random mutations over an immense span of time. But this answer is inconsistent with the fossil record wherein creatures appear "full-blown and raring to go." Consequently, for most of the past century, biologists and geneticists have tried to discover how a huge number of favorable mutations can occur at one time so that a new species would appear without intermediate types.

However, as the eminent and committed Darwinist Ernst Mayr explained,The occurrence of genetic monstrosities by mutation...is well substantiated, but they are such evident freaks that these monsters can only be designated as 'hopeless.' They are so utterly unbalanced that they would not have the slightest chance of escaping elimination through selection. Giving a thrush the wings of a falcon does not make it a better flyer....To believe that such a drastic mutation would produce a viable new type, capable of occupying a new adaptive zone, is equivalent to believing in miracles.

The word miracle crops up again and again in mathematical assessments of the possibility that even very simple biochemical chains, let alone living organisms, can mutate into being by a process of random trial and error. For generations, Darwinians have regaled their students with the story of the monkey and the typewriter, noting that given an infinite period of time, the monkey sooner or later is bound to produce Macbeth purely by chance, the moral being that infinite time can perform miracles.

However, the monkey of random evolution does not have infinite time. The progression from simple to complex life forms on earth took place within a quite limited time. Moreover, when competent mathematicians considered the matter, they quickly calculated that even if the monkey's task were reduced to coming up with only a few lines of Macbeth, let alone Shakespeare's entire play, the probability is far, far beyond mathematical possibility. The odds of creating even the simplest organism at random are even more remote--Fred Hoyle and Chandra Wickramasinghe, celebrated cosmologists, calculated the odds as one in ten to the 40,000th power. (Consider that all atoms in the known universe are estimated to number no more than ten to the 80th power.) In this sense, then, Darwinian theory does rest on truly miraculous assumptions.

Perhaps the most amazing aspect of the current situation is that while Darwin is treated as a secular saint in the popular media and the theory of evolution is regarded as the invincible challenge to all religious claims, it is taken for granted among the leading biological scientists that the origin of species has yet to be explained. Writing in Nature in 1999, Eörs Szathmay summarizes that, "The origin of species has long fascinated biologists. Although Darwin's major work bears it as a title, it does not provide a solution to the problem." When Julian Huxley claimed that "Darwin's theory is...no longer a theory but a fact," he surely knew better. But, just like his grandfather, Thomas Huxley, he knew that his lie served the greater good of "enlightenment."

When The Origin of Species was published it aroused immense interest, but initially it did not provoke antagonism on religious grounds. Although many criticized Darwin's lack of evidence, none raised religious objections. Instead, the initial response from theologians was favorable. The distinguished Harvard botanist Asa Gray hailed Darwin for having solved the most difficult problem confronting the Design argument--the many imperfections and failures revealed in the fossil record. Acknowledging that Darwin himself "rejects the idea of design," Gray congratulated him for "bringing out the neatest illustrations of it." Gray interpreted Darwin's work as showing that God has created a few original forms and then let evolution proceed within the framework of divine laws.

When religious antagonism finally came it was in response to aggressive claims, like Huxley's, that Newton and Darwin together had evicted God from the cosmos. For the heirs of the Enlightenment, evolution seemed finally to supply the weapon needed to destroy religion. As Richard Dawkins confided, "Darwin made it possible to be an intellectually fulfilled atheist."

Atheism was central to the agenda of the Darwinians. Darwin himself once wrote that he could not understand how anyone could even wish that Christianity were true, noting that the doctrine of damnation was itself damnable. Huxley expressed his hostility toward religion often and clearly, writing in 1859: "My screed was meant as a protest against Theology & Parsondom...both of which are in my mind the natural & irreconcilable enemies of Science. Few see it but I believe we are on the Eve of a new Reformation and if I have a wish to live 30 years, it is to see the foot of Science on the necks of her Enemies." According to Oxford historian J. R. Lucas, Huxley was "remarkably resistant to the idea that there were clergymen who accepted evolution, even when actually faced with them." Quite simply, there could be no compromises with faith.

Writing at the same time as Huxley, the leading Darwinian in Germany, Ernst Haeckel, drew this picture:

On one side spiritual freedom and truth, reason and culture, evolution and progress stand under the bright banner of science; on the other side, under the black flag of hierarchy, stand spiritual slavery and falsehood, irrationality and barbarism, superstition and retrogression.... Evolution is the heavy artillery in the struggle for truth. Whole ranks of...sophistries fall together under the chain shot of this...artillery, and the proud and mighty structure of the Roman hierarchy, that powerful stronghold of infallible dogmatism, falls like a house of cards.

These were not the natterings of radical circles and peripheral publications. The author of the huge review of The Origin in the Times of London was none other than Thomas Huxley. He built his lectures on evolution into a popular touring stage show wherein he challenged various potential religious opponents by name. Is it surprising that religious people, scientists as well as clerics, began to respond in the face of unrelenting challenges like these issued in the name of evolution? It was not as if they merely were asked to accept that life had evolved--many theologians had long taken that for granted. What the Darwinians demanded was that religionists agree to the untrue and unscientific claim that Darwin had proved that God played no role in the process.

Among those drawn to respond was the Bishop of Oxford, Samuel Wilberforce, who is widely said to have made an ass of himself in a debate with Huxley during the 1860 meeting of the British Association at Oxford. The relevant account of this confrontation reported: "I was happy enough to be present on the memorable occasion at Oxford when Mr. Huxley bearded Bishop Wilberforce. The bishop arose and in a light scoffing tone, florid and fluent, he assured us that there was nothing in the idea of evolution. Then turning to his antagonist with a smiling insolence, he begged to know, was it through his grandfather or his grandmother that he claimed descent from a monkey? On this Mr. Huxley...arose...and spoke these tremendous words. He was not ashamed to have a monkey for an ancestor; but he would be ashamed to be connected with a man who used his great gifts to obscure the truth. No one doubted his meaning and the effect was tremendous."

This marvelous anecdote has appeared in every distinguished biography of Darwin and of Huxley, as well as in every popular history of the theory of evolution. In his celebrated Apes, Angels and Victorians, William Irvine used this tale to disparage the bishop's snobbery. In his prize-winning study, James Brix went much farther, describing Wilberforce as "naive and pompous," a man whose "faulty opinions" were those of a "fundamentalist creationist" and who provided Huxley with the opportunity to give evolution "its first major victory over dogmatism and duplicity." Every writer tells how the audience gave Huxley an ovation.

Trouble is, it never happened. The quotation above was the only such report of this story and it appeared in an article titled "A Grandmother's Tales" written by a non-scholar in a popular magazine 38 years after the alleged encounter. No other account of these meetings, and there were many written at the time, made any mention of remarks concerning Huxley's monkey ancestors, or claimed that he made a fool of the bishop. To the contrary, many thought the bishop had the better of it, and even many of the committed Darwinians thought it at most a draw.

Moreover, as all of the scholars present at Oxford knew, prior to the meeting, Bishop Wilberforce had penned a review of The Origin in which he fully acknowledged the principle of natural selection as the source of variations within species. He rejected Darwin's claims concerning the origin of species, however, and some of these criticisms were sufficiently compelling that Darwin immediately wrote his friend the botanist J. D. Hooker that the article "is uncommonly clever; it picks out with skill all the most conjectural parts, and brings forward well all the difficulties. It quizzes me quite splendidly." In a subsequent letter to geologist Charles Lyell, Darwin acknowledges that "the bishop makes a very telling case against me." Indeed, several of Wilberforce's comments caused Darwin to make modifications in a later revision of the book.

The tale of the foolish and narrow-minded bishop seems to have thrived as a revealing "truth" about the incompatibility of religion and science simply because many of its tellers wanted to believe that a bishop is wrong by nature. J. R. Lucas, who debunked the bishop myth, has suggested that the "most important reason why the legend grew" is, first, because academics generally "know nothing outside their own special subject" and therefore easily believe that outsiders are necessarily ignorant, and, second, because Huxley encouraged that conclusion. "The quarrel between religion and science was what Huxley wanted; and as Darwin's theory gained supporters, they took over his view of the incident."

Since then the Darwinian Crusade has tried to focus all attention on the most unqualified and most vulnerable opponents, and when no easy targets present themselves it has invented them. Huxley "made straw men of the 'creationists,'" as his biographer Desmond admitted. Even today it is a rare textbook or any popular treatment of evolution and religion that does not reduce "creationism" to the simplest caricatures.

This tradition remains so potent that whenever it is asked that evolution be presented as "only a theory," the requester is ridiculed as a buffoon. Even when the great philosopher of science Karl Popper suggested that the standard version of evolution even falls short of being a scientific theory, being instead an untestable tautology, he was subjected to public condemnations and much personal abuse.

Popper's tribulations illustrate an important basis for the victory of Darwinism: A successful appeal for a united front on the part of scientists to oppose religious opposition has had the consequence of silencing dissent within the scientific community. The eminent observer Everett Olson notes that there is "a generally silent group" of biological scientists "who tend to disagree with much of the current thought" about evolution, but who remain silent for fear of censure.

I believe that one day there will be a plausible theory of the origin of species. But, if and when that occurs, there will be nothing in any such theory that makes it impossible to propose that the principles involved were not part of God's great design any more than such a theory will demonstrate the existence of God. But, while we wait, why not lift the requirement that high school texts enshrine Darwin's failed attempt as an eternal truth?

Rodney Stark was professor of sociology at the University of Washington for many years and is now university professor of the social sciences at Baylor University. He is author of For the Glory of God (Princeton University Press) and other acclaimed books on science and religion.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: atheism; christianmythology; crevolist; evolution; genesis1; mythology; superstition; thebibleistruth
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To: muawiyah
Amazing. I had no idea. I guess I'm still among the un-PC crowd since I use "congress-critters" often. Worse, most of my friends do as well. Horrors, I'm friends with a bunch of blasphemous creatures. (Notice I didn't use critters.)
161 posted on 09/15/2006 6:22:00 PM PDT by Morgan in Denver
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To: stands2reason

It's the place with the most potential for attention.


162 posted on 09/15/2006 6:24:50 PM PDT by ml1954 (ID = Case closed....no further inquiry allowed...now move along.)
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To: Ichneumon

Wow, do you do this all the time?

That is just incredible.

Thank you


163 posted on 09/15/2006 6:33:10 PM PDT by Jaguarbhzrd
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To: muawiyah; Ichneumon
Are you trying to convert people or beat them over the head until they're unconscious?

I think Ichny made his point that Ann will not be getting a Nobel Prize for her evolution chapters.

The level of inaccuracy is unthinkable for a scientist, and the ease with which she has been caught out is unforgivable for a lawyer.

164 posted on 09/15/2006 6:33:45 PM PDT by Coyoteman (I love the sound of beta decay in the morning!)
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To: Morgan in Denver
Misstates how fossils demonstrate the evolutionary transition from reptiles and mammals, as well as the fossil record of dinosaurs and mammals.

Okay, just to take this one issue. Are you saying fossils do not demonstrate evolutionary transition? Are you saying there doesn't need to be a fossilized history that would support evolutionary theory? You are saying there are living creatures but no fossils?

Do you have a particular problem with understanding fossils?

Living creatures are not fossils. I thought you would be able to see that.

165 posted on 09/15/2006 6:34:22 PM PDT by thomaswest (So many schisms in religion--there cannot be 'one true faith'.)
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To: Coyoteman

It would still be risky to treat her like trailer trash though.


166 posted on 09/15/2006 6:35:09 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Coyoteman

It would still be risky to treat her like trailer trash though.


167 posted on 09/15/2006 6:36:37 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

Screed? That was a fact filled, easily verified posting.

It was much more intellectual and honest then anything that I have seen you post.

Please, post something that is verifiable, intellectual, and honest.

I for one would enjoy seeing it.

I just see you bashing, this is not converting, it is called giving the facts, and let the people fall where they may.

If you wish to call it a screed, please go right ahead, but now that you have made that claim, back it up.

Disprove anything that was stated, in that "screed".


168 posted on 09/15/2006 6:36:53 PM PDT by Jaguarbhzrd
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To: Jaguarbhzrd
Are you competing with me?

Don't bother. I see no reason for competition.

This is just discussion, not class warfare.

169 posted on 09/15/2006 6:38:06 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Morgan in Denver; Virginia-American
If I'm wrong, I can live with that too. What helps Coulter more than anything else is the way people come unglued over the issue.

Ah, yes, if people get outraged over lies and misrepresentations and propaganda, that helps the liar, right?

Do you likewise think that the conservative outrage over the propaganda of Michael Moore, Cindy Sheehan, Al Franken, and the rest "helps" liberals? Why or why not?

Look, if the evolution side ever wants to convert the masses, the argument has to be logical and appeal to ones common sense.

It is. Unfortunately, most people never bother to go look at it by reading science journals, taking biology classes, visiting museums, etc. The anti-evolutionists, however (including Coulter) constantly barrage the public with outrageous misrepresentations, "sounds good" fallacies, etc. designed to mislead the public on these issues and undermine their confidence in the science. For a long time the "evolutionists" just ignored the nonsense thinking that few would be too stupid to fall for it. Unfortunately, the Big Lie propaganda technique is an effective one, and through constant repetition vast numbers of people came to believe that all the false attacks on biology "must" have some substance to them, since they were hearing it from every direction. When the "evolutionists" finally start firing back with righteous indignation about the lies being told about them and about science, they get tarred for not being calm and "logical". Can't win either way.

And the problem with "appealing to common sense" is that unfortunately a lot of things in science fly in the face of "common sense". Time slowing down as velocity increases (i.e. Relativity) totally violates all "common sense". Black holes are an outrage to "common sense". And a great many things in biology are way outside the realm of "common sense", because they're far outside everyday experience due to their small size, very long or very short timespans, etc.

A proper understanding of science requires quite a bit of specialized knowledge in order to really "get" it. It's not the kind of thing that anyone off the street will glance at and go, "oh, yeah, that's obvious from a common sense standpoint..." If it *was* obvious, we wouldn't need centuries of scientific progress in order for mankind to have learned it, everyone would have seen it thousands of year ago. Many of the findings of science are quite counterintuitive, in fact.

The anti-evolutionists, however, are under no such handicap -- they just spew whatever "sounds good" (i.e., whatever appeals to common sense, whether it happens to be true or not is beside the point). Once they fill people's heads with lots of things that Just Ain't So, but which *sound* like they *ought* to be because they match people's expectations based on "common sense", it almost takes a crowbar (and a 10,000 word essay with lots of footnotes) to lead them back to the "this sounds really bizarre but it's been verified endlessly" truth that science spent a hundred years arriving at through a huge amount of hard work and careful study, observation, and testing.

To date, this has not happened.

Sure it has. There's a vast amount of good introductory material to evolutionary biology. But like my tagline says, people have to *want* to check it out. We can't go door to door cramming it down people's throats.

The only thing I see are comments about how stupid people for not believing or how it's settled, when it all isn't.

There's nothing wrong with just "not believing" biology or any other field of science. The people who get slammed as ignorant or stupid, however, are the people who either go out of their way to *avoid* learning anything about the subject (anything valid, that is, lots of them "learn" about evolutionary biology from anti-evolution propaganda sites), but who feel qualified to come "lecture" us about how "wrong" we are, or who run around misinforming the public and holding themselves up as some sort of font of information on the subject (e.g. Coulter).

Try reading these threads for a few months, and you'll quickly see how many of the anti-evolutionists actively avoid learning about the topic, and how we can present them with a huge amount of information on some aspect of it in response to their misinformation, only to have them a) blow it off entirely without reading it or dealing with it, then b) coming back and posting their false material all over again on the next thread while pretending that they had never seen any evidence or rebuttal to the contrary...

In short, we have no problem with someone who simply knows little about this topic or who through lack of familiarity with it happens to be skeptical of it. But there are a lot of loudmouthed know-nothings who insist on "informing" everyone in sight about how millions of biologists have been idiots or liars for the past 150 years... Frankly, those kind of people deserve all the abuse they get, and deserve to be informed in no uncertain terms that contrary to their high opinions of themselves, they actually don't know what in the hell they're talking about. We don't put up with that sort of behavior from empty-headed liberals who can't shut up on topics they don't actually understand, and we're not going to take it from any non-liberals either.

There comes a time when some people need to be told, "you're an idiot on this subject, either shut up so you stop wasting everyone's time, or go learn something about it before you try again."

170 posted on 09/15/2006 6:39:07 PM PDT by Ichneumon (Ignorance is curable, but the afflicted has to want to be cured.)
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To: Morgan in Denver
Coulter claims several times that the fossil record in no way supports Darwin's theory of evolution. On Page 199, she claims that evolution is "a make-believe story, based on a theory that is a tautology, with no proof in the scientist's laboratory or the fossil record." Again, on Page 215, she claims that there's "absolutely nothing in the fossil record to support it [evolution]." To support her claim, Coulter attempts to show that several well-known examples of the fossil record do not provide evidence of evolution.

Scientists have compiled a well-documented case demonstrating "large-scale, progressive, continuous, gradual, and geochronologically successive morphologic change" between reptiles and mammals. Coulter argues, on Page 228, that scientists "have no idea if the reptiles are even related to the mammal-like reptiles, much less to the mammals." However, contrary to Coulter's claim, science has observed links between reptiles and mammals through an existing succession of transitional fossils. Skeletal features are used to distinguish between reptilian fossils and mammalian fossils. While many characteristics differ between reptiles and mammals, scientists have observed reptilian fossils that over time took on characteristics of mammals, such as the construction of the lower jaw. Reptiles' lower jaw consists of multiple bones, while mammals' lower jaw is a single large bone. Additionally, most bones in reptiles and mammals are homologous, which suggests that the bones are of common origin. The most important homologous bones between reptiles and mammals are several skull and jaw bones of reptiles and middle ear bones of mammals. Furthermore, synapsids (a particular group of reptiles) share an additional homologous structure with mammals -- an opening behind the eye socket in the skull. This is very characteristic of mammals, which is why synapsids are referred to as mammal-like reptiles.

When scientists have placed the fossils of reptiles and mammals in the proper geochronological order, they have observed a natural succession in synapsids that becomes more mammalian and less reptilian. The lower jaw successively increases in size until the entire lower jaw is one bone. Coulter is aware of this evidence, but does not refute it. On Page 229, she states, "The jawbone metamorphosis didn't prove evolution," but she doesn't offer any evidence to explain why evidence of jawbone metamorphosis should not be seen as evidence of evolution; the reader is apparently expected to have faith in Coulter's unsupported conclusion and disregard the work of professional scientists. Scientists also have observed successive, geochronological change from reptilian sprawling limb posture to mammalian upright limb posture.

171 posted on 09/15/2006 6:40:42 PM PDT by thomaswest (So many schisms in religion--there cannot be 'one true faith'.)
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To: muawiyah; Coyoteman; Jaguarbhzrd
I was just mentioning the fact that I find many of the Evos on these threads to have a sort of "class consciousness" about them

Yes, I already saw your bizarre post. If you ever manage to actually make a case for your random misunderstanding, feel free to present it.

~ which, I might add, is totally unearned,

Whatever you say.

and then you posted your screed.

Yes, I did post my article. Very good. Here's a cookie. What this has to do with validating your strange obsession with "class consciousness", however, will have to remain your little secret.

Are you trying to convert people or beat them over the head until they're unconscious?

No, son, I'm documenting quite a few of Coulter's misrepresentations and falsehoods. Try to keep up.

172 posted on 09/15/2006 6:43:54 PM PDT by Ichneumon (Ignorance is curable, but the afflicted has to want to be cured.)
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To: muawiyah
Yeah, right, ...

Well, that's quite nifty. An admission from muyah that somebody else might be right. LOL. You're cute.

173 posted on 09/15/2006 6:45:25 PM PDT by thomaswest (So many schisms in religion--there cannot be 'one true faith'.)
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To: Ichneumon

A fool's errand.


174 posted on 09/15/2006 6:45:59 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Ichneumon

My crapper has a pile of Science News several feet deep. I read through all of them regularly, going back many years. I recently renewed my subscription.


175 posted on 09/15/2006 6:48:01 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Ichneumon

176 posted on 09/15/2006 6:48:09 PM PDT by Coyoteman (I love the sound of beta decay in the morning!)
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To: muawiyah
a pile of Science News several feet deep.

A pity that you have not understood those articles relating to geology, palentology, geological dating methods, evolution, etc.

177 posted on 09/15/2006 6:50:11 PM PDT by thomaswest (So many schisms in religion--there cannot be 'one true faith'.)
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To: thomaswest
You're lucky I bothered making a response. It's obvious you've never been involved in working with a sampling system that had more critical factors than could be handled under Student's T-distribution.

Gad.

178 posted on 09/15/2006 6:51:06 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: ofwaihhbtn
I write as neither a creationist nor a Darwinist

...nor as a biologist nor even anyone vaguely familiar with the field of biology, clearly...

He's really, really full to the top with common creationist fallacies and falsehoods, though...

179 posted on 09/15/2006 6:53:25 PM PDT by Ichneumon (Ignorance is curable, but the afflicted has to want to be cured.)
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To: thomaswest

How would you know. Innumerancy is such a pitiful condition. Bet you can't even find the page numbers.


180 posted on 09/15/2006 6:53:27 PM PDT by muawiyah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 177 | View Replies]


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