Can a good Muslim be a good American?

A friend who knows | 8/11/2006 | Agent Smith

[Agent Smith]

I ask my fellow freepers indulgence for this vanity, because I believe it is too important to be buried in the back of the forum.

Can a good Muslim be a good American? I sent that question to a friend who worked in Saudi Arabia for 20 years.

The following is his reply:

Theologically - no. Because his allegiance is to Allah, the moon god of Arabia.

Religiously - no. Because no other religion is accepted by his Allah except Islam (Quran, 2:256)

Scripturally - no. Because his allegiance is to the five pillars of Islam and the Quran (Koran).

Geographically - no. Because his allegiance is to Mecca, to which he turns in prayer five times a day.

Socially - no. Because his allegiance to Islam forbids him to make friends with Christians or Jews.

Politically - no. Because he must submit to the mullah (spiritual leaders), who teach annihilation of Israel and Destruction of America, the great Satan.

Domestically - no. Because he is instructed to marry four women and beat and scourge his wife when she disobeys him (Quran 4:34).

Intellectually - no. Because he cannot accept the American Constitution since it is based on Biblical principles and he believes the Bible to be corrupt.

Philosophically - no. Because Islam, Muhammad, and the Quran do not allow freedom of religion and expression. Democracy and Islam cannot co-exist. Every Muslim government is either dictatorial or autocratic.

Spiritually - no. Because when we declare "one nation under God," the Christian's God is loving and kind, while Allah is NEVER referred to as heavenly father, nor is he ever called love in The Quran's 99 excellent names.

Therefore after much study and deliberation...perhaps we should be very suspicious of ALL MUSLIMS in this country. They obviously cannot be both "good" Muslims and good Americans. Call it what you wish...it's still the truth. The more who understand this, the better it will be for our country and our future. The war is bigger than most Americans know or understand.

[sinkspur]

You can't accept the fact that a religion exists that does not tolerate any other religion (see "Dhimmi"). This contradicts the American notion that all religions should be treated equally by the government, a notion which you seem to have elevated to the level of dogma.

Radical Islam doesn't tolerate other religions. American Muslims, however, do and seem to have no problem with that particular practice.

All religions SHOULD be treated equally by the government. It is what has prevented any hint of a theocracy in this country, and for that I am extremely grateful.

As for your listing of crimes committed by Muslims, I could list crimes committed by Christians of equal horror.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

I suspect that you can't accept the fact that Mohammedanism is inherently militant because you're an Americanist at heart.

Screaming "heresy" because I don't want to drive Muslim American citizens out of the country?

Where does this Americanism say that?

[Aquinasfan]

The key is the use of reasonableness as the standard. If a particular form of religious expression does not seem reasonable, it likely isn't.

Here we disagree. My check is the magisterium and the Pope. They define Catholicism, not us.

Yes, but the Magisterium is reasonable! Faith and reason are complementary, not antithetical, since they are both gifts from the same God.

I sometimes have problems accepting the 'turn the other cheek' notion as reasonable, but if I don't accept it overall, I am no Catholic, and probably not even a good Christian.

The notion must be understood properly. We are not to be doormats, since Jesus also told us:

Luke 22:36

He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.

Turning the other cheek: what did Jesus really mean?

[mjolnir]

"On the contrary, it is the Saudies, Pakistanis, the Palestinians who destroy Christian churches."

Shall we follow their example, or would you prefer they follow ours?

Good question, with an obvious answer.

Here's another question. Why haven't there been Muslim riots in the Detroit area, where Muslims are so populous, the way there are in places like France? Leftism breeds resentment.

Let's stick to the Constitution and keep doing things the AMERICAN way-- that doesn't mean you have to be a Norm Mineta with your head in the sand.

[kabar]

The vast majority of the world's Muslims live in countries where Christian and Jewish worship is not allowed.

Wrong. Indonesia, the world's largest Muslim country, allows Christian worship [Muslim pop: 201 million]; so does India [Muslim pop. 144 million], Pakistan [Muslim pop. 140 million], Egypt [Muslim pop. 65 million], Bangladesh [Muslim pop. 115 million], Nigeria [Muslim pop: 95 million} and Turkey [66 million]. Most of the other countries in the world where Muslims live, including the US and Europe, allow the practice of Christianity. In point of fact the vast majority of Muslims [1.2 billion total] live in countries where Christian worship is allowed.

The practice of the Jewish religion is another matter.

[Lazamataz]

But do you think that criminalizing a religion is in line with the intent of the Founders?

If only Hitler had thought to call his Nazism a religion.

He'd have won.

[farmer18th]

Colonial literature and early American newspapers, were full of references to the "Turk" and the remorseless "Mohometan." Defending the republic against the turbaned zealots would have been something like the modern prohibition against using Nazis in interenet flame wars like this one. The evil was assumed. None of them could have imagined the sort of historical ignorance that would be required to allow for unrestrained Islamic immigration to "these united states."

[Ace of Spades]

It seems to be the aim of most people on this thread.

[zook]

It's a public school that is comprised of about 90% Arab Moslem students. Nothing disingenuous about that. The entire football team for most of the past several years has been Arabic. There was a piece on one of the networks after 9/11 talking about what it was like to be an all Arabic/Moslem football team.

[farmer18th]

So you are admitting "Christian AND Jewish" worship is illegal in the vast majority of Muslim states? It's a little Boolean quiz for you.

[Lazamataz]

But do you think that criminalizing a religion is in line with the intent of the Founders?

Furthermore: Identify one religion in the modern era that has a very sizable percentage of devotees as practicioners of random and terroristic violence.

And the balance of the devotees, silent about the former.

[wtc911]

The government lies all the time, you are right about that. but I think that if there were to be a push to strip us of constitutional protections in the wind then it would have happened in early 2002 or early 2005. You should see the power the government has in these areas in France.

[Lazamataz]

That's not saying much, since there was no justification then. Twice nothing is still nothing. Heck, we could have ten times the justification and still have nothing.

You won't be happy until the nuke actually goes off in Portland, will ya?

[highball]

And yet, the Constitution is silent on the subject. I guess it isn't just the Leftists who believe in a "living document".

I presume you also accept Jefferson's to the Danbury Baptists as the intent of a Founder. One must be intellectually consistent, after all.

If the Founders intended Islam to be exempted from the Constitutional protections afforded every other religion, they should have said so. They, in their wisdom, did not.

[Lazamataz]

There's a stunning amount of pro-islamic, PC madness going on here on this thread. Very depressing, that when faced with our own destruction, maybe are very willing to go down with the ship simply because we can't ban and deal with islam.

I used to be on their side.

Then I realized it is a fight for SURVIVAL.

After we survive, we can make nice again. Kinda like after WWII

[delacoert]

You are asserting that someone who simply holds American citizenship is guaranteed to be civilized. Would that it were so.

[farmer18th]

Screaming "heresy" because I don't want to drive Muslim American citizens out of the country? Where does this Americanism say that?

It was written in the rubble after 9-11. It just took a while to make it out.

[highball]

You won't be happy until the nuke actually goes off in Portland, will ya?

That has nothing to do with the mass deportation of millions of natural-born American citizens just because they don't share your religion.

A police state is a safer state. Franklin called it at the beginning - be careful what trades you're willing to make for that security.

I'm sorry, Ben. Maybe we can't keep it.

[highball]

we can make nice again

It saddens me that respect for the Constitution is denigrated as "making nice."