There you are Bruce!
Thanks for the reply. ;o)))
Posted on 08/02/2006 5:37:46 AM PDT by rightwingintelligentsia
When Tim LaHaye talks, the faithful listen—by the millions. The conservative Protestant minister is the coauthor of the wildly popular apocalyptic “Left Behind” novels. The controversial books, which have sold more than 60 million copies, depict the biblical end of the world: the Christian eschatology of the upheaval that precedes the second coming of Jesus Christ, known also as “end times.” LaHaye recently spoke with NEWSWEEK’s Brian Braiker about why he believes the events currently unfolding in the Middle East reflect biblical prophesy.
(Excerpt) Read more at msnbc.msn.com ...
It's far from a pleasant bag for any of us. Wish I didn't have to take it into consideration. Wish I could deny it's existence.
Sometimes wish I didn't know what I know.
"Apparently we all read different bibles..."
I notice you didn't endeavor to show me the reference and explain how I was wrong.
It's easier just to read Lindsey's goofy interpretations than it is to study it for yourself.
"Sounds like the ASSUMPTIONS about "them" above are rather . . . arbitrary and unmoveable."
It has nothing to do with "them". It specifically says that Israel would be given a bill of divorce for infidelity, which as you know was given as the only acceptable reason for divorce in the NT.
I read the entire series, but none of them were as good (as in a fun read) as the first one. I will look for the titles you mentioned in your post.
susie
That's a pretty good website. Right now I'm reading an insightful article showing that the Book of Joel implies that World War III occurs immediately after the abomination of desolations.
I've never construed this being that difficult.
God did 'divorce' Himself from various generations of the Children of Israel . . . more or less . . . those leaving Egypt in the Exodus died in the wilderness.
I've never found in all of Scripture a shred of evidence that God said He 100% finally for 100% of the children of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob 100% divorced Himself from them for 100% of all time. NEVER. Not a shred.
Of course, one can construe Scripture to say all kinds of things as one can spin one's reasons for being home late at night. Doesn't make them true.
The lamps stand for spirits, the sword coming out of Christ's mouth is the Word of God...etc. etc. etc.
Revelation and other apocalyptic literature is NOT literal, it is to be interpreted symbolically, as is much of the Bible (ex: the parables are symbolic stories intended to communicate truths). The 144,000 are also to be taken symbolically.
No man knows the Day or the Hour . . .
G_d knows. He knows our hearts. He knows every name written in the Book of Life. It is simple to deduce the exact moment of Jesus' return . . . It is when the last person to be saved under grace accepts Jesus' Gift of Salvation.
If these days were not shortened . . .
Biblical Prophesy is %100 accurate. Right down to the letter. Now, the Tribulation period is spoken of in detail, right down to the number of days. Yet, it also says the days are shortened. I tend to think that during the horrors of the Tribulation, the Earth's rotation is effected, maybe by the impact of Wormwood. The end result is days of maybe 18 hours instead of 24. You still have the number of days thet G_d Ordained, but they are shortened so that the race of man does not die out.
While all the following Scriptures would then evidently be false.
That perspective, imho, originates from the pit; from pride; and without knowing very intimately the heart of God.
Genesis 9:12
And God said, This is the token of the covenant which I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations:
Genesis 17:7
And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto you, and to your seed after you.
Exodus 31:13
Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.
Psalm 33:12
12Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD; and the people whom he hath chosen for his own inheritance.
Exodus 32:13
Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, thy servants, to whom thou swarest by thine own self, and saidst unto them, I will multiply your seed as the stars of heaven, and all this land that I have spoken of will I give unto your seed, and they shall inherit it for ever. [Which will be fulfilled to the tiniest degree—as Christ said . . . not one jot or tittle . . . ]
[ I guess God “forgot” he was going to permanently divorce them forever. /sar] 1 Chronicles 17:13-15 (King James Version) King James Version (KJV) Public Domain
13I will be his father, and he shall be my son: and I will not take my mercy away from him, as I took it from him that was before thee:
14But I will settle him in mine house and in my kingdom for ever: and his throne shall be established for evermore.
15According to all these words, and according to all this vision, so did Nathan speak unto David.
1 Chronicles 17:13-15 (The Message) The Message (MSG) Copyright © 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 2000, 2001, 2002 by Eugene H. Peterson
10-14 "And now I'm telling you this: God himself will build you a house! When your life is complete and you're buried with your ancestors, then I'll raise up your child to succeed you, a child from your own body, and I'll firmly establish his rule. He will build a house to honor me, and I will guarantee his kingdom's rule forever. I'll be a father to him, and he'll be a son to me. I will never remove my gracious love from him as I did from the one who preceded you. I will set him over my house and my kingdom forever; his throne will always be there, rock solid."
Ezra 3:11
And they sang together by course in praising and giving thanks unto the LORD; because he is good, for his mercy endures for ever toward Israel. And all the people shouted with a great shout, when they praised the LORD, because the foundation of the house of the LORD was laid. Ezra 3:10-12 (in Context) Ezra 3 (Whole Chapter)
Psalm 12:7
Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.
Psalm 103:9
He will not always chide: neither will he keep his anger for ever.
Psalm 105:8
He hath remembered his covenant for ever, the word which he commanded to a thousand generations.
Psalm 111:9
He sent redemption unto his people: he has commanded his covenant for ever: holy and reverend is his name.
Psalm 125:2
As the mountains are round about Jerusalem, so the LORD is round about his people from henceforth even for ever.
Psalm 136:11
And brought out Israel from among them: for his mercy endures for ever:
Psalm 136:21
And gave their land for an heritage: for his mercy endures for ever:
Psalm 136:22
Even an heritage unto Israel his servant: for his mercy endures for ever.
Psalm 138:8
The LORD will perfect that which concerns me: thy mercy, O LORD, endures for ever: forsake not the works of your own hands.
Isaiah 9:7
Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.
Isaiah 59:21
As for me, this is my covenant with them, says the LORD; My spirit that is upon you, and my words which I have put in your mouth, shall not depart out of your mouth, nor out of the mouth of your seed, nor out of the mouth of your seed's seed, says the LORD, from henceforth and for ever.
ISAIAH 59 (MESSAGE V)
15-19God looked and saw evil looming on the horizon— so much evil and no sign of Justice.
He couldn't believe what he saw:
not a soul around to correct this awful situation. So he did it himself, took on the work of Salvation, fueled by his own Righteousness.
He dressed in Righteousness, put it on like a suit of armor, with Salvation on his head like a helmet, Put on Judgment like an overcoat, and threw a cloak of Passion across his shoulders.
He'll make everyone pay for what they've done:
fury for his foes, just deserts for his enemies.
Even the far-off islands will get paid off in full.
In the west they'll fear the name of God, in the east they'll fear the glory of God, For he'll arrive like a river in flood stage, whipped to a torrent by the wind of God.
20"I'll arrive in Zion as Redeemer, to those in Jacob who leave their sins."
God's Decree.
21"As for me," God says, "this is my covenant with them:
My Spirit that I've placed upon you and the words that I've given you to speak, they're not going to leave your mouths nor the mouths of your children nor the mouths of your grandchildren. You will keep repeating these words and won't ever stop." God's orders.
Isaiah 60:21
Your people also shall be all righteous: they shall inherit the land for ever, the branch of my planting, the work of my hands, that I may be glorified.
Jeremiah 3:12
Go and proclaim these words toward the north, and say, Return, you backsliding Israel, says the LORD; and I will not cause mine anger to fall upon you: for I am merciful, says the LORD, and I will not keep anger for ever.
Jeremiah 7:7
Then will I cause you to dwell in this place, in the land that I gave to your fathers, for ever and ever.
Jeremiah 25:5
They said, Turn you again now every one from his evil way, and from the evil of your doings, and dwell in the land that the LORD has given unto you and to your fathers for ever and ever:
Jeremiah 32:39
And I will give them one heart, and one way, that they may fear me for ever, for the good of them, and of their children after them:
Lamentations 3:31
For the LORD will not cast off for ever:
Ezekiel 37:25
And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.
Ezekiel 43:7
And he said unto me, Son of man, the place of my throne, and the place of the soles of my feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel for ever, and my holy name, shall the house of Israel no more defile, neither they, nor their kings, by their whoredom, nor by the carcasses of their kings in their high places.
Ezekiel 43:9
Now let them put away their whoredom, and the carcasses of their kings, far from me, and I will dwell in the midst of them for ever.
Daniel 2:44
And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
Amos 1:11
Thus saith the LORD; For three transgressions of Edom, and for four, I will not turn away the punishment thereof; because he did pursue his brother with the sword, and did cast off all pity, and his anger did tear perpetually, and he kept his wrath for ever:
Obadiah 1:10
For your violence against thy brother Jacob, shame shall cover you, and you shall be cut off for ever.
Micah 4:7
And I will make her that halted a remnant, and her that was cast far off a strong nation: and the LORD shall reign over them in mount Zion from henceforth, even for ever.
Micah 7:18
Who is a God like unto you, that pardons iniquity, and passes by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? he retains not his anger for ever, because he delights in mercy.
Luke 1:33
And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
Luke 1:55
As he spoke to our fathers, to Abraham, and to his seed for ever.
Revelation 4:10
The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that lives for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying,
Revelation 5:14
And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that lives for ever and ever.
= = = = =
OBVIOUSLY, given REPLACEMENT theology, these last 2 verses are not true because they should say 12 elders, not 24—NOT 12 from the JEWISH PATRIARCHS because all that has been flushed due to the total permanent “divorce” and the total and permanent REPLACEMENT with the church.
Evidently God didn’t get that memo.
Thanks for the ping! Interesting article.
Whether we're in the end times or not, I'm praying for the peace of Jerusalem.
Everyone seems to know who Jacob is, who is Esau/Edom? Also note the first instruction Christ gave to His disciples in Matthew 10: *lost sheep of the house of Israel*.
same here
Sorry. I'm still not very keen on guessing games.
Happy to read assertions, ideas, insights, conjectures . . .
I think I've missed some folks who have pinged me or responded to me. So I'm going back through this thread from the beginning. First, I'm finishing reading the original article.
In the article, I find this statement of Tim's which I agree wholeheartedly with:
= = = = =
You’ve written about the threat of secular humanism.
Part of the opposition to our position is from the secular humanists, but part of it is from the liberal people of theology that reject the Bible. I don’t see a great deal of difference between them. Their basic conclusions are often the same.
I have my own opinions on the End Times but I'm keeping them to myself on this board, there are people who will jump all over you.
Thanks much.
Agreed.
It's been a long time since I studied any of that out. I don't keep straight the geographical descendants of Esau. Then there's Ishmael and the Persians/Iranians all mixed up in this MidEast drama.
Would be happy to read your conclusions from your studies.
Pretty reasonable brief list, imho.
Have you been to Kathleen Keating's website? She's a faithful RC.
http://www.kathleenkeating.com/news/
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