Families Challenging Religious Influence in Delaware Schools

New York Times ^ | NEELA BANERJEE

[DIM1]

A dispute in Georgetown, Del., underscores the rising tensions over religion in public schools.

I spend a fair amount of time trying to convince other religious Jews that their concerns about Evangelical Christians are baseless, and that they should cooperate with them on common objectives such as preserving Israel, protecting religious freedom, social issues etc. The incidents described in this story is exactly the kind of thing they many of them are afraid of. And, that does not include the prayers per se, but the ridicule, and exclusionary nature of some of the prayers. What do my fellow conservatives advise I tell them about this incident?

Thank you and G-d bless you,

DIM1

[DIM1]

Dear DaveTesla,

Thank you!
I was hoping that there was good reason to suspect the story. Though there are always pockets and incidences of bad behaviour, it did not match my experience of ECs towards OJs. I will try and follow up on this and see if the original claims were exaggerated, misrepresented etc. Would be just like the lib activists and NYT to try and drive a wedge between believers before next election.

Best!
DIM1

[Hound of the Baskervilles]

"My neice's graduation was like Sunday service complete with gospel singing. It's common for a pastor to stand in front of a public ceremony and say a prayer. I've standing in front of a public school graduation giving his never heard about a Catholic priest or bishop (or a rabbi) blessing. "

Yes. I would not particularly care for that. I think there is a hidden agenda in people who push their religion on a captive audience attending a public school function. Why needlessly antagonize people? I think they secretly want to antagonize people and think they are entitled to and indeed required to antagonize people as part of spreading the gospel. But it never works! Nobody is going to covert because some teenager says a prayer to Jesus at a graduation service.

[DIM1]

Dear Hound of the Baskervilles,

That conception is, as I understand it, in keeping with the current range of opinions of the Supreme Court. I.e. that religious activities are permissible in public schools if a. organized and conducted by students, b. are entirely voluntary and c. not undertaken as part of a class or compulsorily assembly but, held at lunch, recess, study-hall, or as part of an after school club. And, though basically sound, I think it may cut too deeply into the traditions of a given community. Might there be room - aside from the pledge - for the traditions of a community to be continued? For example if the Pastor who gave the graduation address to have done so without the declaration to the effect that "only Christians can get to heaven?"

Thank you for your input,
DIM1

[DIM1]

Dear American in Israel,

I don't think the issue is "freedom of Worship" at all. But, as to what is appropriate in a compulsorily activity for children, and as undertaken by public officials. I don't think it's any infringement on the rights of those officials to adjust themselves to the needs of all the students - especially - when there is plenty of provision for religious expression by the students themselves at other times of the school-day - e.g. lunch, recess, study-hall, after-school clubs etc. And, in fact, there may be no objection to the prayer said by a teacher before class, provided they don't - seem to - go out of their way to disrespect the faith of one of their pupils.

Thank you,
DIM1

[Hound of the Baskervilles]

"Because liberals know very well that the Public School System has (by liberal judicial activism) become the left's only hope of undermining what most children are taught at home and at church,

All too true. Id like to respond now but it is late and I have to get up early. I just know I'll be here all night if I get much more into this now. :O>

[Hound of the Baskervilles]

"They did not consider this to be a violation of the first amendment or they would never have agreed to live under that in the first place."

Did they consider that Christian prayer in schools would make Jewish kids feel marginalized? In fact not just feel marginalized to actually be marginalized?

[DIM1]

Dear wintertime,

Arguments of the kind "no one can be entirely "neutral," "objective," etc are ones usually heard from the left. And, are usually connected with agendas - such as "public Journalism" - geared to give license for media bias. Surely you can't mean that there is no middle-ground between unlimited sectarianism in public schools and complete repression of religious expressions? Do you also believe that there is no balance between heedless lewdness in the workplace and complete submission to the dictates of radical feminism, such that telling someone that they "look nice" is equated to sexual assault?
Think on it!

Thank you,
DIM1

[DIM1]

Dear an amused spectator,

Perhaps, if - G-d forbid - someone drops a heavy weight on your foot, your pain and concern might be immediately eased by the knowledge that "we're in a World War with a pitiless gutter religion which would like to eliminate or enslave ALL the other religions by treachery and the sword."
Perhaps not though.

As always. DIM1

[DIM1]

Dear Tired of Taxes,

Yes, but the source puts the stories validity into serious question.

Thank you,
DIM1

[DaveTesla]

"drive a wedge between believers"

See... You got it!

Have you looked at their Website?

Pro Homosexual, Pro Abortion, Anti-Christan, Anti Israel...
In fact it is the antithesis of Free Republic.

http://www.jewsonfirst.org/index.html


They seem to have special venom for a Jewish millionaire
from California named Irving Moskowitz, who is using his
fortune to help Jews find places to live in and around
Israel.
http://www.stopmoskowitz.org/

I grew up in a town that had many Orthodox living in
it. Many were my BEST friends, many I love, one saved my
life and one family adopted me when my mother fell ill.
I remember Sam who owned the local deli. Sam who I used to do
repair work for in the summer. He was the kindest man who
could aways make you laugh. "You boys have it made in the
shade" he would tell us. (he he).
I miss you Sam.

I was raised a Catholic and never once had I herd the
term Chr*** kil***.


If you want my personal opinion this is not about race or
religion but ideologies.

Looking at their website I think they hate GOD.
Good for them. (NOT)
Although I think it is their prerogative we could never
be friends.

I have a few Marxist's in my family and I never discuss
religion with them. Whenever I come in contact with them
I aways have to listen to their rhetoric. I don't like
when they start talking about the "Gay agenda" around my
children, and they aways do. I stay away from them too.
We can't be friends either.
You see I am a Evangelical Christian (Religious Right to some)
and it is them who are insistent in indoctrinating me and my children.
We (me, my wife, and four children)were cooking steaks on
the grill tonight and ran out of gas(Ut-oh). My son (12 years old
called his best friend (it is Sunday and every place
to refill propane tanks is closed) and his mother disconnected
her propane tank from her grill and lent it to us.
Another kind person. Not that it matters but she's Jewish
too.

Looking over their website I believe they have an agenda.
And a very Leftist / Marxist one at that.
So that is why I think this is article is BS.
I suspect they agitated the situation to promote their agenda.
I am not saying that things like this don't happen,
just oddly, not in my life.

[wintertime]

DIM1,

First of all, let's remember that government schools are COMPULSORY for all children who can not home or privately school. That means armed police and social workers stand ready to impose the government's will.

It is impossible for government schools to be neutral on HUNDREDS ( possibly thousands of issues). If you do not believe this, then outline for us a school curriculum and policies that does not establish the religious beliefs of some while at the same time undermining the religious values of others. If you post this, I and others will have great fun shredding it.

Why is this so? It is impossible to be neutral because the government school's decision is a binary one. It is either yes or no.

No matter what the government school does it WILL establish the religious beliefs of some and actively and deliberately undermine the religious traditions of some.

The other problem with government schools is that in order to be safe, orderly, and accomplish their mission of education, they MUST violate free speech, press, and assembly. They MUST punish children if they don't shut up and sit with those that the government assigns. There are constitutional problems with the government telling its citizens to shut up, not pray, not publish, and not freely assemble.

Therefore, there is only one constitutional solution: Begin the process of privatizing universal K-12 education.

Private schools can tell children to shut up, and assemble with those of the private school's choosing because they are privately chosen. Private schools can have a non-neutral agenda precisely because they are privately chosen. Armed police are not going to search for a student who does not show up at their privately chosen school.

Your reference to the private work place does not apply to government schools. Attendance at government schools is NOT voluntary and armed police are used every day to insure this attendance. If you do not believe this, please do a Google search on the words: Truant and Police.

[OriginalIntent]

I don't like it when any child has to feel marginalized. Yet, the modern leftist Public School system promotes homosexuality, sex outside of marriage, and other things that actively marginalize Christian children every day of the week.

Once again, the difference is that parents are not the ones who pushed this immoral teaching into schools, it was liberals with an agenda, using liberal judges with an agenda.

Maybe if enough children are marginalized we can finally end the public school monopoly and return to privitization.