Posted on 07/15/2006 3:20:15 PM PDT by Jeff Head
Here are the first pictures I am aware of of the damaghed IDF Naval vessel, the Saar 5. Fron these pictures, it is clear that the ship was hit at an angle that would have allowed the CIWS to engage if it was active. I am now leaning towards the systems not being engaged at the time of attack.
IMHO, if true, as some reports have indicated today (buit that I did not want to believe), it would be a fatal and inexcusable mistake in the environment the vessel found itself in...defending other IDF gunboats against air attack during shore bombardment.
Please see the following FR thread for much more discussion and assessment:
Initial assessment of C-802 missile engagment against IDF Saar 5
Looking at the impact point and considering the images of the C802 missile, would it be too far off to suggest that it was a near miss in that the water absorbed a lot of the explosion? A direct hit from that type of missile IMHO should have sunk it period or at least caused greater structural damage. I'm not a seaman but it seems they got off very lucky.
Or, the warhead did not explode and the missile itself and its fuel did the damage.
For more info, just click here:
http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/naval/saar5/Saar5.html
One of our U.S. shipyards built the hull in 1994, and the weapon systems were added in Israel.
C802s will damage, but not usually instantly destroy a front-line corvette, frigate, or destroyer. The warhead isn't big enough to do it.
The Silkworm (the C802's bigger, older brother) carries a 546kg warhead, and that one *will* instantly sink a destroyer.
The British frigates burned easily due to large amounts of plastic insulated wiring and electronic cables, plus aluminum superstructures. They also had just about all of the wiring and plumbing running down the centerline of the ship, so that a hit or a fire in the central passageway would pretty much doom the ship. Modern frigates aren't nearly as surviveable as our WW2 destroyers, some of which took up to a dozen kamikazi hits without sinking or burning up.
The blast damage and blackening seems to me to indicate the missile came in at enough of an angle from the starboard side to allow the Phalanx to engage. I could easily be wrong and will have to wait for more data.
FYI...more info with pics.
I could find that very likely. If the ship was very close to the missile launch site as you have inferred, then the missile may not have had time to arm before strike the boat.
Looking at the design of the ship, that was probably the area of highest RCS.
Interesting pics.
...or it was a defective warhead. Has happened a number of times in the past.
I'm looking at the dispersion pattern on that picture. It looks like it came from astern, and at a slight deflection such that the superstructure would block the Phalanx guns.
Also, remember that Phalanx has to be pointing in the general direction of the threat to start with, on these ships - they don't have Aegis to cue the Phalanx system's radars, plus they have the "man-in-the-loop" version where a human has to okay the attack.
Real simple answer: Because you are not in charge of the Israel navy. I'm sure if you were in charge, all their ships would tow a decoy behind them....hmmm.. perhaps not, since it would slow the ships down considerably.
Oh well, what do I know, I'm not an Admiral....
that's pretty serious looking boat.
(BTW, did you see the Australian review of September Day that I sent)?
Israel does not have a naval history and thus are inexperienced.
Hmmm, interesting. I'll have to do some more research.
I heard a report saying they were turned off because they didn't think there was anything to worry about!! Some heads oughta roll over this one!
I lean towards the defensive systems not being engaged as has been reported today. It is extremely possible that the superstructure blocked the egagement envelope of the CIWS, but a slight turn by the captain would have opened that up.
I figure, if the radar was on, and that was all they had going for them to acquire, then they saw it when it came into their radar event horizon about 4-5 miles out, and that they had as many as 20 seconds between detection and impact.
I did...that was a GREAT review and I will have it up on the site soon.
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