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First pictures of stricken IDF Navy, Saar 5 vessel, hit by Iranian missile
photobucket.com ^ | July 15, 2006 | Jeff Head

Posted on 07/15/2006 3:20:15 PM PDT by Jeff Head

Here are the first pictures I am aware of of the damaghed IDF Naval vessel, the Saar 5. Fron these pictures, it is clear that the ship was hit at an angle that would have allowed the CIWS to engage if it was active. I am now leaning towards the systems not being engaged at the time of attack.

IMHO, if true, as some reports have indicated today (buit that I did not want to believe), it would be a fatal and inexcusable mistake in the environment the vessel found itself in...defending other IDF gunboats against air attack during shore bombardment.

Please see the following FR thread for much more discussion and assessment:

Initial assessment of C-802 missile engagment against IDF Saar 5


TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: 2006meconflict; chinesethreat; idf; insspear; iranianthreat; islamicthreat; israel; israelinavy; israelnavy; navy; saar5; ssm; waratsea; waronterror; wot
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To: Jeff Head

Looking at the impact point and considering the images of the C802 missile, would it be too far off to suggest that it was a near miss in that the water absorbed a lot of the explosion? A direct hit from that type of missile IMHO should have sunk it period or at least caused greater structural damage. I'm not a seaman but it seems they got off very lucky.


21 posted on 07/15/2006 3:33:11 PM PDT by Godzilla (Evil can be defeated when the good are unafraid.)
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To: Godzilla

Or, the warhead did not explode and the missile itself and its fuel did the damage.


22 posted on 07/15/2006 3:34:37 PM PDT by Jeff Head (God, family, country)
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To: AEMILIUS PAULUS

For more info, just click here:

http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/naval/saar5/Saar5.html

One of our U.S. shipyards built the hull in 1994, and the weapon systems were added in Israel.


23 posted on 07/15/2006 3:35:56 PM PDT by Tancred
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To: Godzilla

C802s will damage, but not usually instantly destroy a front-line corvette, frigate, or destroyer. The warhead isn't big enough to do it.

The Silkworm (the C802's bigger, older brother) carries a 546kg warhead, and that one *will* instantly sink a destroyer.


24 posted on 07/15/2006 3:36:29 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Moose4
I remember hearing similar stories from the Falklands war

The British frigates burned easily due to large amounts of plastic insulated wiring and electronic cables, plus aluminum superstructures. They also had just about all of the wiring and plumbing running down the centerline of the ship, so that a hit or a fire in the central passageway would pretty much doom the ship. Modern frigates aren't nearly as surviveable as our WW2 destroyers, some of which took up to a dozen kamikazi hits without sinking or burning up.

25 posted on 07/15/2006 3:36:48 PM PDT by Dumpster Baby ("Hope somebody finds me before the rats do .....")
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To: Spktyr

The blast damage and blackening seems to me to indicate the missile came in at enough of an angle from the starboard side to allow the Phalanx to engage. I could easily be wrong and will have to wait for more data.


26 posted on 07/15/2006 3:37:03 PM PDT by Jeff Head (God, family, country)
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To: GATOR NAVY

FYI...more info with pics.


27 posted on 07/15/2006 3:38:24 PM PDT by Jeff Head (God, family, country)
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To: Jeff Head
Or, the warhead did not explode and the missile itself and its fuel did the damage.

I could find that very likely. If the ship was very close to the missile launch site as you have inferred, then the missile may not have had time to arm before strike the boat.

28 posted on 07/15/2006 3:38:35 PM PDT by Godzilla (Evil can be defeated when the good are unafraid.)
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To: diverteach

Looking at the design of the ship, that was probably the area of highest RCS.


29 posted on 07/15/2006 3:38:57 PM PDT by NY Attitude (You are responsible for your safety until the arrival of Law Enforcement Officers!)
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To: Jeff Head

Interesting pics.


30 posted on 07/15/2006 3:39:18 PM PDT by fso301
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To: Godzilla

...or it was a defective warhead. Has happened a number of times in the past.


31 posted on 07/15/2006 3:39:18 PM PDT by Jeff Head (God, family, country)
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To: Jeff Head

I'm looking at the dispersion pattern on that picture. It looks like it came from astern, and at a slight deflection such that the superstructure would block the Phalanx guns.

Also, remember that Phalanx has to be pointing in the general direction of the threat to start with, on these ships - they don't have Aegis to cue the Phalanx system's radars, plus they have the "man-in-the-loop" version where a human has to okay the attack.


32 posted on 07/15/2006 3:39:18 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Renfield

Real simple answer: Because you are not in charge of the Israel navy. I'm sure if you were in charge, all their ships would tow a decoy behind them....hmmm.. perhaps not, since it would slow the ships down considerably.

Oh well, what do I know, I'm not an Admiral....


33 posted on 07/15/2006 3:40:28 PM PDT by Lokibob (Spelling and typos are copyrighted. Please do not use.)
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To: Jeff Head

that's pretty serious looking boat.


34 posted on 07/15/2006 3:40:31 PM PDT by the invisib1e hand (dust off the big guns.)
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To: Jeff Head
Looks like she's not listing, or anything, so it didn't do too much damage. And that's a tiny ship.

(BTW, did you see the Australian review of September Day that I sent)?

35 posted on 07/15/2006 3:40:53 PM PDT by LS
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To: Renfield

Israel does not have a naval history and thus are inexperienced.


36 posted on 07/15/2006 3:40:55 PM PDT by MinorityRepublican (Everyone that doesn't like what America and President Bush has done for Iraq can all go to HELL)
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To: Spktyr

Hmmm, interesting. I'll have to do some more research.


37 posted on 07/15/2006 3:41:07 PM PDT by Godzilla (Evil can be defeated when the good are unafraid.)
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To: mtbopfuyn

I heard a report saying they were turned off because they didn't think there was anything to worry about!! Some heads oughta roll over this one!


38 posted on 07/15/2006 3:41:24 PM PDT by MrLee
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To: Spktyr
Understand all of that.

I lean towards the defensive systems not being engaged as has been reported today. It is extremely possible that the superstructure blocked the egagement envelope of the CIWS, but a slight turn by the captain would have opened that up.

I figure, if the radar was on, and that was all they had going for them to acquire, then they saw it when it came into their radar event horizon about 4-5 miles out, and that they had as many as 20 seconds between detection and impact.

39 posted on 07/15/2006 3:42:07 PM PDT by Jeff Head (God, family, country)
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To: LS

I did...that was a GREAT review and I will have it up on the site soon.


40 posted on 07/15/2006 3:42:51 PM PDT by Jeff Head (God, family, country)
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