Posted on 07/15/2006 3:20:15 PM PDT by Jeff Head
Here are the first pictures I am aware of of the damaghed IDF Naval vessel, the Saar 5. Fron these pictures, it is clear that the ship was hit at an angle that would have allowed the CIWS to engage if it was active. I am now leaning towards the systems not being engaged at the time of attack.
IMHO, if true, as some reports have indicated today (buit that I did not want to believe), it would be a fatal and inexcusable mistake in the environment the vessel found itself in...defending other IDF gunboats against air attack during shore bombardment.
Please see the following FR thread for much more discussion and assessment:
Initial assessment of C-802 missile engagment against IDF Saar 5
The one thing in our arsenal which the two-bit regimes geniunely used to fear was the Iowa-class ship. One of those could put a place like Syria totally out of business in a couple of days with no risk to itself. The damage from a silkworm could be repaired with a bucket of paint and a paint brush.
"...You need to learn about missile flight profiles...."
I could address the same remark to you.
"...BTW, do you have any idea what a 3" thick piece of steel, the full length of the ship, and tall enough to defeat a pop-up missile weighs? What are you going to propel it with? Who is going to drive it? What happens to it in heavy seas? High winds? What is to stop a smart-aleck from sneaking a zodiak loaded up with explosives up next to it, and then zipping around it and WHAM?..."
If 70 meters X 10 meters X 7.5 cm, approximately 412,000 kg. This shouldn't be hard for a catamaran hull with enough beam. Of course, if it were a steel skin around a wooden frame, it would be considerably less. It wouldn't be hard to fit it with an autopilot slaved to the mother ship, and programmed to keep it landward of the mother ship at all times.
.50 caliber Browning machine guns are good medicine for Zodiacs.
ROTFLMAO!!!!!
"...I remember one harpoon vs target shoot onboard the USS Harold E. Holt, we weren't the firing ship, just the observers, but the target ship had been gutted, and was basically just a steel shell. The harpoon went through the ship, about 10 ft above the waterline, and exploded about 100yds, on the OTHER SIDE.
All that precious decoy would have done, is ensure that the warhead would have exploded closer to the real target...."
Ever thought about 2 vertical planar surfaces, one on each pontoon of the catamaran?
I have a better idea:
Turn the automated missile defense system back on.
Interesting idea. Create a decoy to absorb the worm.
"....The naval equivalent of adding explosive charges to the barrage balloons..."
If that "explosive charge" is like Chobham armor, it might not be a bad idea.
L
Another strategy might be to incline the surface of the decoy to a very shallow angle relative to the horizontal, say, about 20 degrees. That might cause a ricocheting effect upward.
I Believe that the impact maybe the pile of debris in front of the helo in the first pic. There seems to be some wreckage and possibly a radome askew atop the hanger. This would be an up the butt shot (worst possible scenario for their missiles and CIWS) for sure with the missile hitting the intersection of the hanger and the flight deck (largest RCS from astern for a plunging popup missile) That would explain the even keel (no actual hull penetration) and the persistant fire (maybe a helo in the hanger?) It would also do serious damage to the aft engineering spaces below the hanger.
As for a comment on the experience level of the IDF's Navy; They are, from what I saw of their seaman and officers, every bit as capable and professional as the rest of the IDF. The survival of that ship after a hit of this type speaks to that.
Thanks Jeff.
That would certainly help.
They tried that. They haven't figured out how to get the force field to stop forming at the water line. Force field surrounds ship, force field repels water around ship, ship drops to the bottom. Sad, really. Problem is, what they really need is a force field half-bubble. :-)
In this thread, the video seems to show two hits.
LOL. Nice imagery. Sounds like the Palestinian Navy to me.
I must have slept through that part of my advanced defensive systems courses. .... *durn* It's SO obvious now that you pointed it out. :)
The DEBKA article states the ship was sinking. IMO if that was a steep angle just fwd of the helo pad that could likely be true. A blow up of picture #1 seems to show charing just fwd of the parked chopper. I do not think the chopper was likely on the ship at that time adding to the confusion and may have prevented a Delta Fire as well. About the soot on the aft hole? Just that soot from an above deck hit.
More important the ship again according to DEBKA is in fact underway on it's own power. Debka may have gotten this one right and from what I see it fits as being the most likely scenario.
Small hole.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.