Posted on 06/24/2006 8:36:25 PM PDT by Lurker
I'm watching Future Weapons on Discovery Channel and saw this new rifle the Israelis will be issuing soon. I thought it perfect for a Saturday Night Gun Porn Thread.
Here's a pic of one of the variants:
Here's the blurb from the source URL:
The Tavor TAR-21 is a gas operated, selective fire, magazine fed assault rifle of bullpup configuration. It is available in several configurations, which differ in the barrel lengths and accessories. The basic configuration is the TAR-21 assault rifle with the 460mm (18.1 in) barrel. Next are the compact assault rifle, called CTAR-21, with the barrel 380 mm (15 in) long, and the micro assault rifle, with the barrel of only 250 mm (10 in) long, called MTAR-21. The latter rifle also featured a redesigned front part of the housing, for a more comfortable hold of the short weapon. TAR-21 utilizes a now-common long piston stroke, rotating bolt action, with the gas piston rigidly attached to the bolt carrier. Gas cylinder is located above the barrel and is completely enclosed by the gun housing. The rotating bolt is similar to one found in the M16 rifle and has seven lugs. The ejection ports are made on both sides of the weapon, and the right or the left side ejection can be selected by installing the bolt with the ejector mounted on the right or on the left, respectively (and, of cause, this change requires the gun to be partially disassembled). The bolt carrier rides on the single guide rod, with the return spring unit located above it, behind and inside the hollow gas piston rod. The charging handle is located at the front left side of the gun and does not reciprocate when gun is fired. The charging handle slots are cut on the both sides of the gun housing, so it can be installed on either side of the weapon, as required. The trigger unit is more or less conventional, with the ambidextrous fire mode selector / safety switch located above the pistol grip.
The TAR-21 has no separate receiver. Instead, all parts are mounted within the high impact-resistant plastic housing, reinforced with steel inserts where appropriate. The access to all the internal parts is controlled by the hinged buttplate, which can be swung down for internal inspection and disassembly.
TAR-21 has no open sights. It is fitted with the standard Picatinny-type accessory rail on the top of the gun. At the present time the standard sighting equipment for the TAR-21 series rifles (except for the STAR-21 sniper rifle) is the Israeli-made ITL MARS, a complicated and expensive reflex-type sight with the built-in laser pointer. For the night time operations the MARS could be complemented with the ITL Mini N/SEAS compact night vision device.
Israel is replacing its world-famous Uzi sub-machinegun and U.S.-supplied M-16 assault rifle with a new flagship firearm.
The design of the Tavor is based largely on lessons learned during military operations in the West Bank and Gaza Strip during the 34-month-old Al Aqsa intifada. The first Tavors, made by Israel Military Industries (IMI), have been issued to elite Israeli infantry units, part of an order of 15,000 announced last month by the Defense Ministry.
Security sources said deals were under way to sell the weapon, retailing at $1,000, to "friendly foreign clients.". "The Tavor is probably the finest assault rifle now available. Its commando variation weighs 2.8 kg (6.2lbs) compared with the Uzi's 3.7 kg and M-16's 3.4 kg. Bullets are loaded through its stock, allowing for a snub barrel.
End Blurb.
It is chambered in 5.56mm NATO and is designed to use the SS109 type ammunition.
Retail price to 'friendly foreign clients' is said to be about $1,000.00 US.
L
[From what I understand this is a weapon that the Israeli military doesn't want. It is very expensive to produce. They prefer to buy the M16, or its variant.]
I don't know if the Israeli military wants these weapons or not, but you are absolutely correct on the expense of this Tavor vs. the M-16 and its variants. Because of the strings attached to our financial aid to Israel, the M-16s are basically free. That's because we mandate that Israel use certain quantities of the aid to purchase American goods.
Also, I'm 99% sure that our mil buys the M4 for $900 or less. The M-16 version was cheaper than that a few years ago and probably still is. The Tavor is $1,000, of which the IDF has to cough up 100%.
I don't know- maybe Israel believes that the home grown rifle is worth the difference in costs? Still, if I never shoot a bullpup again, I'll be very happy.
You got a pic of your rifle?
What is your opinion on the French FAMAS rifle? I have no experience with the weapon, but I hear that it does not suffer in the manner of the L85.
["TAR-21 has no open sights"
Bad idea IMHO.]
Absolutely correct! Though optics are the future, all weapons should have back up iron sights. Foldable BUIS are fine.
The Tavor design is also flawed, in that the only Picatinny rail is occupied by the optic. Where will they hang the light? What about a vertical foregrip? (They can't even use their support hand on the mag!) It seems like they never plan to mount a grenade launcher.
And the design is also flawed because... it's just not an improvement. If I were the IDF chief, I'd ask the designers, "What does this rifle do that our current ones don't? What does this rifle do that basically free M4s from the US don't do? How is this the 'next generation'?"
The answers to all those questions is, "The $1,000 Tavor does nothing that the M-16/M4 family does not do. In fact, it lacks capabilities that are inherent to the M-16/M4."
Israel, you're wasting your money. And no, even if I could buy one of these, I wouldn't. Even at half price. I don't like bullpups.
[What is your opinion on the French FAMAS rifle? I have no experience with the weapon, but I hear that it does not suffer in the manner of the L85.]
Hi, Boxen. I've heard the franches rifles are in excellent condition- shot rarely and only dropped once.
Is it properly lubed with cheese or champagne? Does their rifle package include a white flag? Does it suffer from malfunctions because the operator is spineless?
Sorry, I have no opinion of the franches rifle. I just don't know anything about it.
"Sorry, I have no opinion of the franches rifle. I just don't know anything about it."
OK, I see.
"Hi, Boxen. I've heard the franches rifles are in excellent condition- shot rarely and only dropped once.
Is it properly lubed with cheese or champagne? Does their rifle package include a white flag? Does it suffer from malfunctions because the operator is spineless?"
Err, right. -_-'
Last time I was in the know a few years back, it was more like $500 and change. In constant dollars, it has gotten much cheaper to produce over the years, and today it is a very fine and thoroughly debugged weapon system that doesn't cost much. It will be very hard to find a compelling replacement. Among the many good reasons the M16 replaced the M14 was that the M14 cost almost three times as much per rifle.
You lucky dog! I wanted one of those, but my Mom wouldn't get it for me.
Saw a special on this recently on one of the cable military/tech channels. An American SF officer was invited to evaluate it and was very favorably impressed. Of particular note was the weapon's amazing accuracy.
If you don't have iron sights, and shoot a rifle soley with a battery operated optical sight, what do you do if the optics malfunction, or the batteries go out, and you have no extra batteries?
Sounds to me like you might be sorta screwed...wouldn't you think?
45-70 Marlin 1895?
OH YEAH>>>> this IS SWEEEEEEEET
You gotta think they'll have some little battle iron sight carried with them that will fit on the rail.
Yep
But that is a real rifle. Not a plastic mattel gun like the AUG.
It is folly to make a close combat rifle without back up iron sights.
The US may look at the Tavor for a replacement to our XM8 and OICW programs.
"She's pretty, but this is still my favorite pin-up:"
GMTA! I love the tommygun, and the 100-rd mag... I don't even mind reloading it, when I can lay my hands on one (which hasn't been in over 20 years, blast it!).
Too bad it is chambered in 5.56mm.
Many reports from Iraq that this round stinks against the insurgents. Same reports from every previous war since it was introduced in Viet Nam.
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