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More scientists express doubts on Darwin
WorldNetDaily.com ^ | June 22, 2006 1:00 a.m. Eastern

Posted on 06/22/2006 1:28:41 PM PDT by Tim Long

600 dissenters sign on challenging claims about support for theory

More than 600 scientists holding doctoral degrees have gone on the record expressing skepticism about Darwin's theory of evolution and calling for critical examination of the evidence cited in its support.

All are signatories to the Scientific Dissent From Darwinism statement, which reads: "We are skeptical of claims for the ability of random mutation and natural selection to account for the complexity of life. Careful examination of the evidence for Darwinian theory should be encouraged."

The statement, which includes endorsement by members of the prestigious U.S. National Academy of Sciences and Russian Academy of Sciences, was first published by the Seattle-based Discovery Institute in 2001 to challenge statements about Darwinian evolution made in promoting PBS's "Evolution" series.

The PBS promotion claimed "virtually every scientist in the world believes the theory to be true."

The list of 610 signatories includes scientists from National Academies of Science in Russia, Czech Republic, Hungary, India (Hindustan), Nigeria, Poland, Russia and the United States. Many of the signers are professors or researchers at major universities and international research institutions such as Cambridge University, British Museum of Natural History, Moscow State University, Masaryk University in Czech Republic, Hong Kong University, University of Turku in Finland, Autonomous University of Guadalajara in Mexico, University of Stellenbosch in South Africa, Institut de Paleontologie Humaine in France, Chitose Institute of Science & Technology in Japan, Ben-Gurion University in Israel, MIT, The Smithsonian and Princeton.

"Dissent from Darwinism has gone global," said Discovery Institute President Bruce Chapman. "Darwinists used to claim that virtually every scientist in the world held that Darwinian evolution was true, but we quickly started finding U.S. scientists that disproved that statement. Now we're finding that there are hundreds, and probably thousands, of scientists all over the world that don't subscribe to Darwin's theory."

The Discovery Institute is the leading promoter of the theory of Intelligent Design, which has been at the center of challenges in federal court over the teaching of evolution in public school classes. Advocates say it draws on recent discoveries in physics, biochemistry and related disciplines that indicate some features of the natural world are best explained as the product of an intelligent cause rather than an undirected process such as natural selection.

"I signed the Scientific Dissent From Darwinism statement because I am absolutely convinced of the lack of true scientific evidence in favor of Darwinian dogma," said Raul Leguizamon, M.D., pathologist and professor of medicine at the Autonomous University of Guadalajara, Mexico.

"Nobody in the biological sciences, medicine included, needs Darwinism at all," he added. "Darwinism is certainly needed, however, in order to pose as a philosopher, since it is primarily a worldview. And an awful one, as Bernard Shaw used to say."


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: crevo; crevolist; mdm; pavlovian; wingnutdaily
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To: Radix
You got nothing but overpaid judges and a few guns to make your position right!

Something in life has hurt you deeply. I am sorry for that.

241 posted on 06/22/2006 9:44:07 PM PDT by OmahaFields
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To: Radix
In truth you are doing more damage to the educational system in this country than the interventionist busing advocates did in Boston (my home town) in the 70s and elsewhere with their tampering and social experiments.

In truth? In truth, religious fanatics would still have us in the dark ages. Imagine teaching children that airplanes are held aloft by angels. Teaching that man and dinosaurs co-existed. That the earth is 6000 years old and the center of the solar system. How much punishment would a child get for claiming that the earth was round?

242 posted on 06/22/2006 9:48:18 PM PDT by OmahaFields
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To: kerryusama04

Actually I got on these threads about here.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1653075/posts?page=304#304

Since you have been here longer, you might know the affiliation of RightWhale and MineralMan.


243 posted on 06/22/2006 9:56:24 PM PDT by OmahaFields
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To: Radix
It is the darwinists who are suppressing dissent.

OK, I am open -- provide a scientific alternative to TTOE. And not by the trite "anything that is researched" definition (which means there can be a "science of astrology" eveny by their example).

I am ready.

244 posted on 06/22/2006 10:09:27 PM PDT by freedumb2003 (The Left created, embraces and feeds "The Culture of Hate." Make it part of the political lexicon!)
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To: Coyoteman
Your initial resposne was addressing my question as to whether evolution should be taught as theory or as fact. What I should have said was there is not as much evidence supporting evolution as the theory itself suggests should be present. Point taken. If the theory inherently implies that there should be larger amounts of evidence in the fossil record and there is not, then the theory is, at best, severely flawed.

As for the game, it was flawed as well. Took my son to see Roger Clemens return to the Astros and they lost 4-2.

245 posted on 06/22/2006 10:12:26 PM PDT by ConservaTexan (February 6, 1911)
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To: Onelifetogive; OmahaFields; balrog666; brytlea
Re 218: I question evolution because its supporters are fighting so hard to keep it from being questioned.

LOL. Just whom do you think you are fooling?

Consider: "I question doctors because they all use X-rays when a kid comes in with a possibly broken arm. Doctors and their humanistic supporters are fighting hard to prevent X-rays from being removed from their clinics as the Church of N-rays urges."

"The questioning of X-rays is a deeply held faith", say faith believers. "There is not a single mention of X-rays in either the Qu'ran or the Bible; if Allah or God wanted us to see X-rays, He would make our eyes able to see with X-ray vision." The only true vision is via N-rays. Neither Jesus nor Mohammed nor Buddha predicted X-rays, but some "scientific elites" still claim that they exist. This is a 'theory' without any foundation.

Modern medicine is largely based on comparative experiments on humans and animals which track evidence impirically [sic] and develop charts and trends. Evolution is not permitted to be compared to anything without garnering snide tin foil hat comments.

Hmm. I suspect this is inaccurate. Tin, Sn, is atomic number 50. Heavier than iron Fe at 26, but much less than lead PB at 82. Usually the foil hat types use Aluminium, only 13. Al is much cheaper and easier to get than tin, which is expensive and not in supermarkets. X-rays also differ in their energy, usually measured in keVs.

It is hard to keep track of all the faith denominations and sectarian differences about tin, aluminium, lead, and the like. Teach the controversy. Some say only tin is effective, some say aluminum. So many schisms. Satan is devious, so baptism is probably the only answer. Personally, I prefer MRI, based on Scripture.

246 posted on 06/22/2006 10:26:28 PM PDT by thomaswest (Humanists are wonderfully moral people, too.)
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To: freedumb2003
OK, I am open -- provide a scientific alternative to TTOE

They have an alternative, but its not scientific. And they don't like to talk about it directly.

But the cat was let out of the bag. The Wedge Document outlines a strategy for pushing religion, and it was leaked. It says, in part:

Discovery Institute's Center for the Renewal of Science and Culture seeks nothing less than the overthrow of materialism and its cultural legacies. ...

We are building on this momentum, broadening the wedge with a positive scientific alternative to materialistic scientific theories, which has come to be called the theory of intelligent design (ID). Design theory promises to reverse the stifling dominance of the materialist worldview, and to replace it with a science consonant with Christian and theistic convictions. ...

Governing Goals: To defeat scientific materialism and its destructive moral, cultural and political legacies. To replace materialistic explanations with the theistic understanding that nature and human beings are created by God.

There is no scientific alternative to TTOE. As has been the case for 150 years, there is a religious fight against the theory of evolution, but on the science side things are pretty well worked out. Scientists are now fighting over the small details; Darwin formulated the big picture pretty accurately.


(A science consonant with Christian and theistic convictions; I can hardly wait. Paging Nehemiah Scudder; pick up the white courtesy telephone please.)

247 posted on 06/22/2006 10:29:44 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Stupidity is the only universal capital crime; the sentence is death--Heinlein)
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To: thomaswest

I never wear a tin-foil hat. I know better. Tin-foil hats are a government conspiracy.

Tin Foil Hats Found to Amplify, Not Reduce, Government 'Mind-Control' Signals

Tin foil hats on, everyone - or maybe not. Tests carried out by MIT students have found that tin foil hats actually amplify 'government mind control' signals sent at frequencies which match those allocated to the US government.

Several hat designs were looked at and "a 30 db amplification at 2.6 Ghz and a 20 db amplification at 1.2 Ghz, regardless of the position of the antenna on the cranium" was found.

The students suggest that the government itself may have spread the rumour that the hats protect individuals from incomming transmissions in order to enhance their mind control programme.


248 posted on 06/22/2006 10:36:13 PM PDT by OmahaFields
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To: ConservaTexan
If the theory inherently implies that there should be larger amounts of evidence in the fossil record and there is not, then the theory is, at best, severely flawed.

First, I am not sure of your source for "there should be larger amounts of evidence in the fossil record and there is not." There actually is a huge amount of evidence. There is enough evidence to sink the ark, literally. Much of it is faunal (critters, not hominid), but a sizable amount is in the "fossil man" category. I have actually studied a lot of the hominid casts personally; not the new ones, as I left grad school quite a while ago, but all of the major ones extant a couple of decades ago.

The "severely flawed" statement depends more on the nature of the evidence than the amount.

First, a moving picture at 32 frames per second appears continuous, but there are 32 gaps per second. Its pretty good at 16 frames, and adequate at 8. There may be a lot of gaps, but the data still forms a coherent picture. To hear anti-evolutionists talk, there would be no frames, and that is absolutely not correct. We may not be at 32 frames, but we are getting an adequate picture with the data at hand.

Secondly, it the data largely point in a specific direction, less is needed. When the data point in all directions, uniformly, no amount will be enough. The theory of evolution has most of the data pointing in the same general direction. The big picture has been largely settled; scientists are now working out some of the smaller points. There will still be surprises, but with the introduction of genetics, which confirmed the existing theories rather than overturning them, it looks like the overall theory of evolution has been well established.

Sorry the baseball game didn't work out as well as you might have liked, but I bet it was fun anyway.

249 posted on 06/22/2006 10:43:56 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Stupidity is the only universal capital crime; the sentence is death--Heinlein)
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To: brytlea
"If humans evolved from chimpanzees, why are there still chimpanzees?"

The question is what did chimpanzees evolve from?

250 posted on 06/22/2006 10:44:43 PM PDT by Rightwing Conspiratr1
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To: Coyoteman
Re 240: So first you claimed there was no evidence in the fossil record, and I showed you evidence.

Evidence? Schmevidence. Just what the hell do you think you are doing with this evidence?

If faith can remove mountains and make all men blind, it is unlikely that puny 'evidence' is going to shake anyone from the deep worry that they might be mortal and not gain everlastingness.

Fear is a much greater motivator than evidence.

All of my E.coli are somewhat inclined toward the geological record--after careful training--so I feel confident in saying, "We thank you."

251 posted on 06/22/2006 10:51:19 PM PDT by thomaswest (Humanists are wonderfully moral people, too.)
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To: Rightwing Conspiratr1
The question is what did chimpanzees evolve from?

Miocene ape-like critters. We had a thread on the best fossil from this time period a few days ago: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1652178/posts.

Original article (pdf file). Very thorough research. I recommend it highly.

252 posted on 06/22/2006 10:51:50 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Stupidity is the only universal capital crime; the sentence is death--Heinlein)
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To: thomaswest
All of my E.coli are somewhat inclined...

Well, straighten them out! (Bunch of slackers.)

253 posted on 06/22/2006 10:53:29 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Stupidity is the only universal capital crime; the sentence is death--Heinlein)
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To: Coyoteman

The problem is that if we are at 8 fps with 8 gaps and we go to 32 fps the creos will say we have more gaps now than before; proof of the failure of evolutionary theory.


254 posted on 06/22/2006 11:01:20 PM PDT by OmahaFields
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To: brytlea
but if you're going to talk to a scientific person, and you say something like, "Evolution is only a theory.", they will immediately assume you know nothing about science, and stop listening to you.

A good assumption. That statement would never be made by one that knew anything about science unless he were an anti-evolution fanatic pushing an agenda with false implications.

255 posted on 06/22/2006 11:06:25 PM PDT by OmahaFields
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To: Coyoteman; OmahaFields
That was a typo.

I meant to write <10,000 year old Earth.

You mean you have failed to understand any of the scientific reasoning on the age of the earth since you do not have a firm grasp on science and math.

Or maybe it was just a fricken typo. Sheesh.

256 posted on 06/22/2006 11:13:57 PM PDT by stands2reason (Rivers will run dry and mountains will crumble, but two wrongs will never make a right.)
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To: stands2reason

Whoops!

What a difference a > vs. a < makes.


257 posted on 06/22/2006 11:16:48 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Stupidity is the only universal capital crime; the sentence is death--Heinlein)
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To: Coyoteman
Re 253: All of my E.coli are somewhat inclined... Well, straighten them out! (Bunch of slackers.)

Organizing E.coli is harder than herding cats. Trust me.

We all just had a little conference. They reminded me of Benjamin Franklin's thought: "We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." This preceded Darwin, but surely he foresaw the evolution-deniers.

Question: do you happen to know if our primate cousins also depend on E.coli? Escheria or a different strain?

258 posted on 06/22/2006 11:18:11 PM PDT by thomaswest (Fear is a much greater motivator than evidence.)
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To: stands2reason

Noted.


259 posted on 06/22/2006 11:24:46 PM PDT by OmahaFields
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To: OmahaFields; brytlea
Re 255: Evolution is only a theory.

Check out: Gravity is only a theory, at www.re-discovery.org

It is hilarious, using all the anti-evolutionists' misdirections and half-truths.

260 posted on 06/22/2006 11:32:19 PM PDT by thomaswest (Fear is a much greater motivator than evidence.)
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