Posted on 06/21/2006 5:15:34 AM PDT by MountainMenace
COLUMBUS, OHIO (6/20/06)-The House of Deputies of the 75th General Convention of the Episcopal Church today overwhelmingly refused to even consider a resolution that affirmed Jesus Christ as the "only name by which any person may be saved."
(Excerpt) Read more at virtueonline.org ...
This has Spong's fingerprints all over it.
No, no no... you do NOT have to be a good person to go to Heaven, you just have to be a sinner. I am serious. This is what a lot of Episcopalians believe including my Bible teacher.
We're all going. Get on board, little children.
You said, "Just as I didn't run to Australia when Clinton was elected president, I'm not going to let misguided liberals run me out of my church."
Neither am I, but you may expect to be pilloried for sticking with your church. I have been.
I agree. Even if they remain ignorant about Jesus. Cause it's about the heart being moved by, and responding to God, not about accepting the truthfullness of a historical narrative or a salvational proposition.
however since God is Soverign He has the Ability to control any circumstances and change them. So your supposition that there could be "certain Circumstances" is I believe impossible!
You are basically saying that if God chooses to save a savage with no way of knowing about Jesus, the savage will by some quirk of circumstance become in possession of a Bible or somehow gain the knowledge required.
(The "quirk" of course being planned by God.)
I think that if God chooses to save a savage He will save a savage. Knowledge on the savage's part is not a prerequisite to salvation.
SD
Accepting, for the time being, your flawed view of the subject, I suppose pointing out that Jesus told His Aposltes to "do this in memory of Me" doesn't mean anything to you?
Whatever He was doing ("this"), He expected His followers to do the same.
SD
You asked, "who are they going to worship as God?" I think they are worshiping money and with that influence and power since a local church cannot break away without loosing it's building. What other assets belong to the Diocese? I don't know. What a coup these people have participated in.
Christ was all about forgiveness, yea, even for the stupid.
Absolutely! He made it all so simple. Because some either "cannot accept' such unconditional love or 'don't understand', they reject His Word. The audicity in trying to 'understand' The Almighty. We accept it on faith. His Ways are not our Ways. And then He shows us 'personally' that His way was better.
It's about a personal relationship with Our Heavenly Father and not about 'religion'. He is a jealous God, HE wants fellowship with us and that is how we get to know HIM - reading HIS WORD and that still small voice of The Holy Spirt! And all because of Our Savior, Jesus' Blood!!
Sooooooo,Hitler,Stalin,Pol Pot,and Mao are in Heaven along with all their victims...I'll bet the kkk will become episcoplians after hearing that.....Lynch a black and go to heaven with them!!!!!!
Well said. you are right God can do what ever He wants however he wants he Is bound only by Himself which is an interesting question in and of itself. however lets get to the real question we are not a couple of aborigines or bushmen we are communicating on one of the most advanced means of communication ever devised We are not ignorant the question is what do you believe about Jesus? we are responsible and we have the knowledge, but do we believe?.....I Do!
and oh yes if HE brings them to a saving faith in Jesus they will know about Jesus.
I assume you missed the part of sin atonement, without which Christianity doesn't exist.
After reading the gospels I got the impression that the whole reason for Christianity was to rebel against the corruption of Judaism during Jesus' time and to spread the spirit of truth.
Sure, that sounds like a cause to be persecuted over. I think you need to have your eyes opened when you read the gospel again. I think you missed a few key parts.
"So if Catholics want to take Jesus at face value when He says "this is my body" you should not have a problem with that."
John 7 Therefore Jesus said again, "I tell you the truth, I am the gate for the sheep.
Should we then believe Jesus is a gate and not in fact a peice of bread ? These are just symbols that you fail to understand. Why do Catholics believe a man can convert a peice of bread into Jesus ? Where do they get such power ?
"But they're not so loosely defined or declared, that you can twist the words and somehow for example, find a basis for a pope that rules the church and that he is another Christ who doesn't make mistakes. "For ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God"
"Who put these ideas into your head? Are you interested in learning what Catholics actually believe or are you content in your ignorance?"
You're not very soothing, Dave. I know what Catholics believe, I use to be one. The Catholic church put this nonsense into my head. I just want to see a basis for it in scripture. Why don't you enlighten me.
I thought we were all Bush men on this site. ;-)
Seriously, I thought we were discussing what we believed, and what we thought was necessary for salvation.
SD
I believe there was a third leg to that stool...
Which church?
John 7 Therefore Jesus said again, "I tell you the truth, I am the gate for the sheep. Should we then believe Jesus is a gate and not in fact a peice of bread ?
You are no stranger to the logical fallacy. Because someone takes one part of Scripture to be expressing a reality and not a symbol does not automatically mean they are prevented from interpreting other sections in other ways.
Besides, have you forgotten that we just got through agreeing that some people will read the same Scriptures and come up with different interpretations? I get the feeling you aren't really trying to understand.
These are just symbols that you fail to understand. Why do Catholics believe a man can convert a peice of bread into Jesus ? Where do they get such power ?
Didn't I just answer this, too? If you aren't going to read and try to understand, I fail to see why I should consider responding to your ignorance.
For the record, not that you'll read this or understand it, Jesus has the power to convert substances because He is God. He works through the priest,the priest is an instrument of Christ.
Not the other way around. The man doesn't command God, the man does what God commands.
You're not very soothing, Dave. I know what Catholics believe, I use to be one. The Catholic church put this nonsense into my head.
Have you considered studying what the Church teaches instead of rejecting things based upon your own experiences?
I just want to see a basis for it in scripture. Why don't you enlighten me.
Several of us have provided you with Scripture on this and related subjects. We can't make you understand it the way we do, but you could at least acknowledge that others read the Scriptures and come to conclusions different from your own.
SD
"Whatever He was doing ("this"), He expected His followers to do the same"
19 And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, "This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me."
His body given for us, as in sacrificed, dying on the cross.
20 In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.
Poured out for us, as in bleeding and dying on the cross for our sins.
It's pure symbolism, yes, we do it in memory of Him, but to then claim men in robes have the power to actually convert bread and wine into the actual body and blood of Christ is really reaching a bit.
I was pondering the Creed the other day, and it occurred to me that it was partly responsible for me becoming Catholic. For all my life I had stated "One holy Catholic and Apostolic Church", but I had felt like a hypocrite (literal meaning, less than truthful) because I knew I was NOT a Catholic, no matter how many episcopal excuses were made about "universal" catholicism. Now I'm a Catholic and I state that line proudly.
I've been there, as well -- very interesting experience -- almost felt like I was sacreligious. For some reason, I thought it was Episcopal. Thanks for setting me straight.
I'm speechless! When I do gain my voice, I will be praying for McDowell and others who hold that view.
I'm speechless! When I do gain my voice, I will be praying for McDowell and others who hold that view.
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