She makes a good point: it is not essential that everybody should "function" as heterosexual: get married, have kids, etc. It is not essential that everybody should "feel" heterosexual. It is very hard, for some people perhaps possible but for some people not possible, to have full control over spontaneous, unwilled feelings.
What IS essential for ALL of us, hetero or homo or whatever other categories there may be, is to live peacefully and chastely within our state of life.
There's something wrong with merely singling out gays as candidates for comprehensive head-bending "reparative" programs; because the sexual disorder in our society is broader than just "gays" with a "problem.".
We live in a lust-celebrating culture which makes it difficult for any of us to guard our eyes, our imaginations and our hearts, to think honorably and live purely.
I'm neither supporting the "gay agenda" here, not putting down Christian ministries. I'm just saying we're all in it together.
Oops. Sorry about that poorly-edited posting.
Thanks for posting this. This is the type of program that needs to be looked into. I started taking this with a grain of salt until I realized a truckload of it would be more appropriate.
Martin Luthor said, "My sins are like little birds. I cannot prevent them from fluttring around me, but I can keep them from building a nest in my hat."
It's not a psychological problem in need of a cure. It's a sin problem in need of repentance. True transformation is the work of the Holy Spirit, and He only transforms persons with repentant faith. If you want to offer therapy based on psychological theories, then fine. Just don't call it Christian because it isn't.
The danger is that these therapists start creating a group of people who identify as Christians but are absolutely not. So you bring a grave sin problem into our churches. Read their testimonies. They see their therapists as more powerful than God. That's not a person who has been regenerated by the Holy Spirit. Jesus isn't a name-brand label to just another sex therapy. These people need to address the sin of their heart, the bitterness, the lust, the depravity, the rebellion, the anger, and they need to submit to the lordship of Jesus Christ.
I'll also add this: stop coddling them. The great effort to prove we love this particular type of sinner more than all other sinners is just ridiculous. The Christian psychologists need to psychoanalyze themselves and see that the bogus name-calling from gay activists has led them to over compensate. Ignore the charge of hate and address these issues with truth (but their schooling has beaten the truth out of them to a certain extent). The truth is the best way to show love, because without the truth we will all have hell to pay -- literally.
Notice how one-sided it is too. Why don't they feel compelled to repeatedly profess their great love for us? Love to the world means a warm, fuzzy emotion. They aren't interpreting it correctly anyway. We just look stupid and weak.
Imagine if Bush proclaimed his love for Osama every time he was mentioned. Osama is just another sinner and all sins are equal. If anyone could use their upbringing as an excuse he certainly could. It would be nice to cure his terrorist ways even if you never dealt with the hate in his heart. From a government standpoint that's fine. But his heart would have to change through repentance and faith before you could ever call him a Christian.
Even if you back away from crime, imagine, "I love liars." "I love jealous people." "I love angry people." On and on. When you say, "I love homosexuals" you are defining them by their sinful behavior and desires and nulifying your argument against the behavior before you ever make it.
We are losing on nearly all political fronts even though we have majoirites everywhere on our side because our self-appointed leaders are making dumb arguments.
When you "clean a house", you do it room by room. Otherwise you end up with confusion. No single organisation can do it all. Find one thing you can do and do it to the best of your ability.
"She makes a good point: it is not essential that everybody should "function" as heterosexual: get married, have kids, etc. It is not essential that everybody should "feel" heterosexual. It is very hard, for some people perhaps possible but for some people not possible, to have full control over spontaneous, unwilled feelings."
Absolutely correct but,
the reason the Gay Pride, Gay Power movement draws our attention is because it isn't about our fellow sinners struggling with individual sin.
The "Gay Power" movement is a collective movement to promote evil and sin, attacking decency and morality.
A movement fighting to promote evil needs a movement to fight it.
So this is what the author thinks we evangelicals think the ex-gay ministries are? Nah, the only thing these ministries can do is help people who want help. The answer to the gay-rights movement is Jesus.
When discussing the homosexual disorder one must necessarily single out "homosexuals". Homosexuality is not comparable to heterosexuality -homosexuality is intrinsically disordered...
There is good reason as evidenced below why the Catholic Church specifically singles out homosexual candidates:
Criteria for the Discernment of Vocation for Persons with Homosexual Tendencies
2. Homosexuality and the Ordained MinistryFrom the time of the Second Vatican Council until today, various Documents of the Magisterium, and especially the Catechism of the Catholic Church, have confirmed the teaching of the Church on homosexuality. The Catechism distinguishes between homosexual acts and homosexual tendencies.
Regarding acts, it teaches that Sacred Scripture presents them as grave sins. The Tradition has constantly considered them as intrinsically immoral and contrary to the natural law. Consequently, under no circumstance can they be approved.
Deep-seated homosexual tendencies, which are found in a number of men and women, are also objectively disordered and, for those same people, often constitute a trial. Such persons must be accepted with respect and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. They are called to fulfil God's will in their lives and to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter.
In the light of such teaching, this Dicastery, in accord with the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, believes it necessary to state clearly that the Church, while profoundly respecting the persons in question, cannot admit to the seminary or to holy orders those who practise homosexuality, present deep-seated homosexual tendencies or support the so-called "gay culture".
Such persons, in fact, find themselves in a situation that gravely hinders them from relating correctly to men and women. One must in no way overlook the negative consequences that can derive from the ordination of persons with deep-seated homosexual tendencies.
Different, however, would be the case in which one were dealing with homosexual tendencies that were only the expression of a transitory problem - for example, that of an adolescence not yet superseded. Nevertheless, such tendencies must be clearly overcome at least three years before ordination to the diaconate.
I find a lot of wisdom in your words.
sorry but the bottom line is homosexuality is only about recreational sex.
Homosexuality is a sexual fetish the same as humans who like sex with animals or wife swapers or any other sexual fetish.
Treating homosexuality is in essence the same as treating any other sexual destructive behavior. Nobody has a problem in treating those who feel sexual arousal from hurting their flesh.
This is not about live and let live since homosexuals are equating ENDORSING with public monies the choice of homosexuality rather than simply engaging in their fetish in private.
There is something wrong with determining that homosexuality is the only sexual disorder that needs help. That said, there is nothing wrong with determining that homosexuality is a further progression of the disorder, just as murder is a further progression of the disorder that stems from anger. Both are wrong, but one is more dangerous.
Shalom.
I wish you great success in your efforts to change and do not wish to discourage you. But, I do want to say what I believe with all my heart. The ONLY sure way to have victory over sin in both thought and deed is in Christ. This way will not work for those unwilling to call sin sin. Christianity is not sex therapy. You don't come to Christ because you want freedom from one problem. You come to Christ because you know you need Him for forgiveness and freedom from all your sins. You see the depravity of your heart and you know you need a Savior and Lord. He does the work through you as you surrender your life to Him. That's the Christian message that doesn't work for you because you do not see this as a sin problem. It won't even work for those who see Christianity as only a good therapy for one unwanted problem. It only works for those who are ready to turn from all sin -- heart and deed -- and put their lives in God's hands.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it. So when a person tries to define homosexual therapy as Christian therapy, I cry foul. But when you, mikeyc, reject the entire sin issue but still seek help for this one problem, I don't cry foul. From my perspective, you can turn from one sin if you desire to do so, even if you do not call it sin. The human will, even in its fallen state, is able to do that most of the time. Your life will be better because of it. But you can't change your general bent to sin and selfishness. We all have it, and faith in Christ is the only hope for that problem.
I wanted to make doubly sure I made that clear. Faith in Jesus Christ is the best way because it is the most complete. It deals with the heart of the problem. Definitely it is not dangerous. Failures have to do with a weakened and corrupted church preaching a watered-down and false gospel and a phony and ineffective faith. Religious ritual saves no one. A man is closer to understanding the gospel when he feels helpless in his sin than when he sits in a lovely, incense filled cathedral and hears a flowery message that never convicts his heart with the truth about his own nature.
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