Buchanan - The stealth amnesty of Rep. Mike Pence

Townhall ^ | June 13, 2006 | Pat Buchanan

[rcocean]

Pence calls his plan a "middle ground" proposal, a "no amnesty immigration reform" in which "securing our border is the first step."

This is fraudulent. At the heart of the Pence plan is amnesty. Illegal aliens here return to Mexico for one week with an assurance they can come back to their jobs. Down there, they visit "Ellis Island Centers" to register as "guest workers" and return with "work permits." The illegal are made legal and put on a path to citizenship.

The only difference between the Pence plan and the Kennedy-Bush amnesty is the one-week vacation employers would happily fund, as it means blanket amnesty for them as well as their illegal hires.

[CWOJackson]

Poor pat...the President is off to Iraq getting cheered by his troops and pat can only muster a couple of brigade members.

[Dane]

No you are not. Re-read the Title of the thread. It is specifically about the Mike Pence immigration plan

And it obvious that you can't read the name of who wrote the article.

IMO, joe kennedy(father of ted kennedy)like nazi sympathizer, pat buchanan.

[shempy]

How does Pence's plan address the people who employ or have employed illegals? Are they forgiven? Also, how does his plan address past tax avoidance by illegals and those that hire them? Does Pence's plan address past identity theft in any way?

I would love to see a "workable" plan, but I am concerned about the above items. I am against any plan that let's illegals and their employers escape paying any of their back taxes. I am also against any plan that forgives identity theft and fraud.

[mjolnir]

Great post. Pat says in the Pence plan, "the illegals are made legal and put on a path to citizenship."

WTH is Pat lying? Anyone who's read the plan knows that's not true. In the Pence plan, anyone who legally becomes a guest worker is not ruled out from applying from citizenship, but is IN NO WAY PUT ON A PATH.

Pretty hard to tell the difference between pat and Ralph Nader these days.

[taxed2death]

"Poor pat...the President is off to Iraq getting cheered by his troops and pat can only muster a couple of brigade members.

You two are like two peas in a pod....LOL...you'll do ANYTHING but discuss the topic at hand.


let's see... we went from touring the Mid East... to WOT....to vegetable pickers to shelter building.... CWO... YOU are the undisputed KING of circular arguments!

I applaud you both actually...


Do either of you care to dispute what PB said?

[rob777]

Although I see Rep. Pence's plan as an improvement over the Senate plan, there are some problems with it. One, is what seems to be a guarantee of returning after a quick trip home. I have no problem with them reentering the country legally, but would like to see them get in line with everyone else rather than being put on a fast track. The other issue is one of support. If we are going to issue a guest worker program so that employers can have access to cheaper labor, those employers should be responsible for supporting their guest workers, not the American tax payers. Finally, why do we need to pass a bill for a guest worker program. It would be much easier to tweak the existing H-1B, H-1C, H-2A, etc. Visas

[taxed2death]

"In the Pence plan, anyone who legally becomes a guest worker is not ruled out from applying from citizenship, but is IN NO WAY PUT ON A PATH."

__________________________________________________________

Here illegally>>>>>>
leave and register in their country>>>>>>>>
come back as legal guest workers>>>>>>>
can then apply for citizenship.

Looks pretty straight forward to me.

Sure looks like a pathway to citizenship = amnesty.

Did I miss something?

Please correct me if I am wrong. Thanks in advance.

[kabar]

Pence's plan is No Amnesty? Under Pence's plan there is no path to citizenship. All the illegals have to go home and they can't come back unless they have an employer willing to hire them. After being screened by private companies (which makes it more effective than any government bureaucrat) to ensure they are not felons or terrorists, they become "legal workers" and not legal citizens.

You need to read the Pence plan. It is not only amnesty, it is unworkable.

But people ask, "Congressman, if you're not going to provide amnesty, what are you going to do with 12 million illegal aliens"?

Pence recognizes that these are illegal aliens who have violated the laws and sovereignity of this country by entering illegally. Many, if not most, are also guilty of identity theft and using phony or the SS numbers of others, which are felonies.

Therefore, the solution is to set up a system that will encourage illegal aliens to self-deport and come back legally as guest workers. This may sound outside of the box, and it is. It may sound far-fetched and unrealistic, but it isn't.

Private worker placement agencies that we could call "Ellis Island Centers" will be licensed by the federal government to match willing guest workers with jobs in America that employers cannot fill with American workers. U.S. employers will engage the private agencies and request guest workers. In a matter of days, the private agencies will match guest workers with jobs, perform a health screening, fingerprint them and provide the appropriate information to the FBI and Homeland Security so that a background check can be performed, and provide the guest worker with a visa granted by the State Department. The visa will be issued only outside of the United States.

The idea that 12 million illegals can self-deport, be processed in less than a week, and return to the US is totally unrealistic. Remember, only about 60% of the illegals are from Mexico. We will need these Ellis Island centers set up all over the world. As someone who has worked for the USG and been involved in visa issuance overseas, background and police checks cannot be done in a week. It will take weeks and months to do such checks in the home country as well as in the US. The same holds true for fingerprint checks and medical examinations, especially in the numbers indicated. If the State Department is going to have to issue these visas abroad, it will take a huge investment of new resources to do such processing.

There are some unanswered questions about what happens when the applicants cannot pass the medcial examinations or something comes up in the police and background check. Why would the illegals take that chance and leave the US, a country they entered at great risk and expense?

Outside of the United States. That is a key point because it is the provision that will require the 12 million illegal aliens to leave. Now, some of you are thinking to yourselves that twelve million people aren't going to pack up and leave just to get a visa to come back legally. But, I believe most will.

The process that I just described to you will only take a matter of one week, or less. That is the beauty of the program. Speed is so important. No employer in America wants to lose employees for an extended amount of time. No worker who is earning money to feed and clothe a family can afford to be off the job for long.

Currently, there are 6 million people in line waiting to gain permanent residence status in the US. Most are located overseas awaiting to come in under the caps on various categories of immigration. Pence proposes to process the 12 million illegals in the US in less than a week and have them return to the US to live and work with so called W visas, which are for a total of six years, renewed in two year increments.

These illegals are receiving preferential treatment because they can live and work in the US and then apply for citizenship six years down the road. It is unfair to all the others who have been waiting in line for years in hell holes waiting to come here. Why are these 12 million getting special treatment?

Let me give you a few other details on the guest worker program. The visas will be referred to as "W Visas."

Now, for some less interesting details. First, the number of guest workers will be limited. After the program is up and running, there will be a period of three years when the market and the needs of U.S. employers will set the limit on the number of guest workers. Not letting the market and the needs of employers govern the number of guest workers initially will prevent illegal aliens from being willing to self-deport. No one wants to be one number over the limit, and that person will want to come here or stay here illegally.

For the first three years of the Pence Plan, there are no limits on the number of "guest workers" who can receive the W visa. Essentially, all the illegals in the US now will be eligible.

But, after three years of this program, we should be in a vastly different situation from where we are now. The great majority of illegal aliens will have self-deported and come back into a confirmed job. The number of those who don't should be a manageable number for law enforcement to pursue and employers to terminate. Therefore, after three years of the program, a reasonable limit on the number of W Visas will be determined by the Department of Labor based on employment statistics, employer needs and other research.

It is painfully obvious that the less than one week out of the country for 12 million people who violated our laws is just a scam. It has more to do with optics than actual substance. Going through the motions should fool no one.

There also will be a limit on the amount of time a guest worker can spend in America. We cannot have people coming to America as permanent guest workers. That is why having a six-year limit is important. It keeps the meaning of the word "guest" in guest worker.

This is the amnesty portion of the plan. At the end of the six years, the W visa holders have the option of going home or seeking citizenship in the US. This allows them to stay in the country and obtain citizenship, probably via a green card. This was confirmed by Pence's spokesman, "After the third term, they have to apply for permanent legal residence or leave," said Matt Lloyd, a spokesman for Pence.

This is the same as the McCain/Kennedy/Martinez/Hagel's plan of going to the back of the line nonsense and an earned path to citizenship. Just allowing these people to live and work in the US while changing status is jumping the line and being rewarded for illegal behavior. Presumably, these people will be allowed to continue working while the processing is being done.

There is no way we are going to deport someone who has been here illegally for up to 20 years and, then six more years under the Pence plan. Moreover, why should they be allowed to apply for citizenship at all? If I lie on a federal job application, I not only don't get the job, I face a jail sentence and/or fine. There should be no path to citizenship period.

"But the plan met immediate resistance from Rep. Tom Tancredo (R-Colo.), leader of House Republicans who oppose moves toward legalizing undocumented immigrants. "Mike Pence is making the same mistakes that the president has — using the straw man of mass deportations and redefining amnesty to suit his interests," Tancredo said. He added that he was baffled by Pence's shift from an enforcement-only position

[mjolnir]

In my opinion you did. Yes, illegals can leave the United States and legally come back from their country is they do so through legal channels--- but they could do that under any circumstances no matter what law was put forth.

As a legal guest worker, they can apply for citizenship, but this is no more than the privilge anyone around the world has. under the Pence Plan, guest worker status is NOT tied to a path to citizenship--- nor does being a guest worker remove the privilege of applying for citizenship.

[kabar]

There also will be a limit on the amount of time a guest worker can spend in America. Guest workers will be allowed to renew their W Visas, but only for a period of up to six years. At that point, the guest should decide whether to return home or enter the separate process of seeking citizenship. We cannot have people coming to America as permanent guest workers. That is why having a six-year limit is important. It keeps the meaning of the word "guest" in guest worker.

This is amnesty portion of the program. The worker can apply for citizenship in the US without returning home. Presumably, they can continue working and living here while their status is being changed.

At the end of the six years, the W visa holders have the option of going home or seeking citizenship in the US. This allows them to stay in the country and obtain citizenship, probably via a green card. This was confirmed by Pence's spokesman, "After the third term, they have to apply for permanent legal residence or leave," said Matt Lloyd, a spokesman for Pence.

[taxed2death]

I respect your opinion although mine differs from yours. At least you are capable of a rational debate, unlike a few here on this thread.

I do see your point that a legal guest worker is not specifically "tied" to a pathway to citizenship and thus can continue on indefinitely just being a legal worker.

It is my contention that "amnesty" means forgiveness. The fact that some legal workers might not apply for citizenship does nothing to discount the fact that they *can* obtain citizenship, hence my position that this is in effect a "pathway to citizenship" (amnesty).

I view US citizenship as the "holy Grail" and the ultimate privilege on this planet.

I guess I'll just have to very respectfully disagree with you on this one.

Thanks for stating your case in a calm, rational manner.

[kabar]

In my opinion you did. Yes, illegals can leave the United States and legally come back from their country is they do so through legal channels--- but they could do that under any circumstances no matter what law was put forth.

If they violated US laws, their chances of returning are nil. Moreover, many would not even qualify to come here as tourists.

As a legal guest worker, they can apply for citizenship, but this is no more than the privilge anyone around the world has. under the Pence Plan, guest worker status is NOT tied to a path to citizenship--- nor does being a guest worker remove the privilege of applying for citizenship.

No, guest workers don't have the right, in most cases, to apply for citizenship in the US. The Pence plan treats the 12 to 20 million illegals already in the US differently than future guest workers. They can jump to the head of the processing line and no quotas are applied against them for reentry. They are also given the option to apply for permanent residence status and eventual citizenship upon expiration of their W visas or return home. No other guest workers have this option except for some H1B visa holders.

[Extremely Extreme Extremist]

REP. TOM TANCREDO'S FOUR-POINT PLAN FOR IMMIGRATION CONTROL

1. Secure our Nation’s Borders

Pence's plan passes H.R. 4437 first before any other immigration laws are considered

2. Establish a Genuine Guest Worker Program

Just like Tancredo, Pence also supports a limited guest-worker provision

3. Improve “Interior Enforcement” of Immigration Laws

Pence's bill cracks down on employers who violate the law and forces the administration to enforce existing immigration laws

4. Remove Incentives for Illegal Immigration

No path to citizenship for illegals. Illegals must go home to apply for guest-worker provision. Borders are secured and managed under the Pence plan

Pat Buchanan is being disingenous.

[AmericanInTokyo]

What we shall do, then, is institute the "PENCE WINDOW" at all consular (visa) sections of US Embassies and U.S. Consulates around the world.

"THE PENCE WINDOW"

The Pence Window: (Definitions and Concept)

Located at all USA Embassies and Consulates at the Visa Section, there shall be two windows. One shall be established--essentially they are already there--for foreign citizen applicants currently already in the legal process to emigrate to the United States, those who already initiated these procedures legally, adhering to Federal Immigration Law outside of the United States. I.e., those that had already submitted their paperwork to a US Consular Offical, or otherwise have no intention of illegally entering the United States through criminal tresspass and avoidance, but rather going through established channels at our diplomatic facilities overseas.

Such a window will be called "LEGAL IMMIGRANT WINDOW".

Currently, the long lines of individuals waiting days, weeks, months and years will continue to line up at that window.

Immediately NEXT to the "LEGAL IMMIGRANT WINDOW", shall be "THE PENCE WINDOW FOR FORMER ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS/EXPRESS LINE"

Illegal immigrants to the USA who have returned to their country under the Pence Idea, shall line up in this special line. They shall have all documents, their current US identification, water bills, school tuition bills, etc. to show they have been living in the USA. At this window, they shall receive preferential treatment and will have their cases expedited in a mere THREE-TO-FIVE WORKING DAYS, whereupon they shall be granted guest visas to live and work in the United States, and so they can also quickly return to the United States as 'legal residents', no longer in the shadows.

The "LEGAL IMMIGRANT WINDOW" and lines for it shall be placed as close as possible to the "PENCE WINDOW/EXPRESS LINE" and the former illegal aliens lining up there.

[cbkaty]

are some of your responders here not fireing on all cylinders? exactly why all this venom for buchanan? i notice none of his attackers are actually debating his points.....

Excellent point...and we need no new immigration laws....simply enforce the ones on the books...this fiasco reminds me of gun-control legislation....

[mjolnir]

I view US citizenship as the "holy Grail" and the ultimate privilege on this planet. I guess I'll just have to very respectfully disagree with you on this one. Thanks for stating your case in a calm, rational manner.

Back at you! I agree that U.S. citizenship is the ultimate privilege on this planet. I actually am rooting for Tancredo to be persuasive in his objections to the Pence Plan. One of President Bush's biggest problems is that the greatest pressure on him from his own party in the Senate has come from the left in the form of Senator McCain. The fact that John McCain rather than, say, Steve Forbes came in second in the Republican primaries (thanks largely to the stupid open primary policy of states like Michigan) gave him a cache and power he otherwise would have lacked. I'm hoping the Pence Plan's opposition from the left is drowned out and made ridiculous by its opponents on the right.

[CWOJackson]

pat is only worried about his cash cow.

[mjolnir]

There also will be a limit on the amount of time a guest worker can spend in America. Guest workers will be allowed to renew their W Visas, but only for a period of up to six years. At that point, the guest should decide whether to return home or enter the separate process of seeking citizenship. We cannot have people coming to America as permanent guest workers. That is why having a six-year limit is important. It keeps the meaning of the word "guest" in guest worker.

This is amnesty portion of the program. The worker can apply for citizenship in the US without returning home. Presumably, they can continue working and living here while their status is being changed.

But legal visitors don't have to go back to their countries of origin to apply for United States citizenship, and guest workers would be legal. Suppose Pence's plan isn't passed. What's to stop an illegal alien from going back to Mexico and applying for citizenship under any of the plans you consider better alternatives? Besides, Pence's plan requires the enforcement provisions be passed first. I still don't see how his plan is an amnesty. Where do you see Pence's plan? Do you think it's just as bad as Martinez/Hagel/McCain/Bush?

[rolling_stone]

But legal visitors don't have to go back to their countries of origin to apply for United States citizenship, and guest workers would be legal.

Legal visitors come in many different visas, they are NON-Immigrant Visas. In other words they are not supposed to be able to immigrate to the US, and eventually become citizens, just visit and leave at the end of their visa. The other class of visas is Immigrant visas for those admitted for permanent residency

Suppose Pence's plan isn't passed. What's to stop an illegal alien from going back to Mexico and applying for citizenship under any of the plans you consider better alternatives?

Nothing is to stop them, but what is their basis for applying for citizenship? Under what law?

Besides, Pence's plan requires the enforcement provisions be passed first. I still don't see how his plan is an amnesty. Where do you see Pence's plan? Do you think it's just as bad as Martinez/Hagel/McCain/Bush?

Part of not seeing any of the plans as AMNESTY is apparently because most people don't understand how a foreigner can come to the US, under what visa and terms and how one can immigrate and one can become a citizen under current law. Without that knowledge, one cannot understand what they are giving away for nothing. Its AMNESTY period. Its worse than AMNESTY because it not only forgives their past acts it rewards them with a guest visa ahead of others desiring the same. Its just covered in sheeps clothing to address peoples concerns that it says it does but doesn't. Buchanan is right.

http://www.uscis.gov/graphics/howdoi/immvisa.htm http://www.uscis.gov/graphics/services/residency/index.htm http://www.uscis.gov/graphics/howdoi/legpermres.htm http://www.uscis.gov/graphics/howdoi/LPReligibility.htm