Posted on 05/27/2006 9:57:27 AM PDT by Carl/NewsMax
The press is already salivating over the prospect of the next Abu Ghraib-like public relations disaster for the U.S. in the war on terror - ballyhooing as yet unproven allegations that a group of U.S. Marines launched an "unprovoked" attack that killed 24 Iraqi civilians in town of Haditha on November 19, 2005.
But was the Marine response really "unprovoked" - as at least 40 press reports have claimed in recent days?
The Boston Globe reports that the confrontation was touched off when a roadside bomb struck a supply convoy of Kilo Company, Third Battalion, First Marine Regiment. The explosion killed Lance Corporal Miguel Terrazas, 20, of El Paso, who was on his second tour in Iraq.
"Everybody agrees that this was the triggering event," Paul Hackett, an attorney for a Marine officer with a slight connection to the case, told the paper.
If the roadside bomb was the "triggering event" for the developments that followed, however, then how can it be said that there was "no provocation"?
And while that provocation may not have been enough to justify the wanton murder of innocent Iraqis, it's far from clear at this point that all of those killed were indeed innocent. Or that any innocents who did die were killed in cold blood.
In an April report that pre-dates the uproar over the Haditha allegations, a Marine press release describes the Iraqi town as "a hotbed of insurgent activity less than a year ago." That would be about the time of the so-called Marine massacre.
Plainly, not all the residents of this terrorist hotbed were as innocent as Marine media critics are now claiming.
The Los Angeles Times reports that after smoke from IED cleared, the Marines quickly determined that it was "a type that would have required someone to detonate it."
Following standard procedure, the troops searched nearby houses, the closest of which was 50 yards away.
That's close enough for its occupants to have tracked the Marine convoy and timed the explosion.
It's also worth remembering that the press has so far reported only one side of the story.
All the witness accounts seem to come from residents of Haditha [that hotbed of insurgent activity] - who paint the Marines as modern day incarnations of Nazi storm troopers.
Alleged witness Aws Fahmi, for instance, told the Boston Globe: "I heard Younis speaking to the Americans, saying: `I am a friend. I am good,' But they killed him, and his wife and daughters."
According to the Los Angeles Times, the video that first raised questions about the how the Iraqis died was shot by Haditha residents themselves. Could it have been staged? We still don't know.
Then there's this intriguing tidbit, again from the Times, which notes that after the IED was detonated: "Marines and Iraqi forces searched houses and other structures in the narrow, dusty streets [of Haditha] - jets dropped 500-pound bombs."
Whoever ordered those airstrikes must not have believed the houses of Haditha were filled with Iraqi innocents who knew nothing about planting roadside bombs.
Despite the swirling questions, the press seems eager to jump to conclusions, taking its cue from Rep. John Murtha - who went public last week with charges that the Marines killed innocent Iraqis "in cold blood."
ABC News, for instance, reported Saturday morning that the military investigators had already determined that the killings were unjustified, and that several Marines would likely face murder charges. But instead of quoting anyone in uniform, the report offered a soundbyte from a Human Rights Watch spokesman.
It's also worth noting that House Armed Services Committee Chairman Duncan Hunter, who got the same insider briefing given to Murtha, says the "in cold blood" allegations are all wet.
"I totally reject that," Hunter told the L.A. Times.
The California Republican has pledged to conclude his own investigation in June. In the meantime he worries about the press using Haditha to further their campaign against the military.
"I don't want the actions of one squad in one city on one morning to be used to symbolize or characterize or tar the actions of our great troops," Hunter told a Washington news conference last week.
Given the Muslim propensity for lying, it would not be surprising if these people were killed by insurgents with weapons stolen from our guys, then they staged the whole scene to make us look bad.
And the stinking media need to slapped down and slapped down hard.
Have you served time in Iraq?
Don't come back and say you were in Vietnam or some other war, this war in Iraq is nothing like them.
The left and MSM are stuck in a time warp and are bound and determined to make this into another Vietnam with their constant lies.
I cannot for the life of me see our troops going into a house and killing innocent people out of revenge yet leaving a ten year old witness unharmed crouching in a corner. If it was done in rage and an act of revenge they wouldn't have left a rat alive.
It wasn't as bad as I thought it might be. I'm surprised they're not off the deep end.
Haditha, Marine Snipers, Ansar al-Sunnah, and the Greater War
The Marines of the 3/25 Marine Reserve battalion have taken in inordinate amount of casualties in the fighting in and around Haditha the past several days. Jack details the toll taken by the Marines of 3/25 and their families. Mr. Kelly correctly points out that while the greater casualties were taken in the IED strike on the amphibious assault vehicle, the loss of the sniper teams is of greater import from a military perspective; The death of the six concerns me more than the destruction of the amtrak. They evidently were ambushed, and had no support nearby.
There is little information available in open source news on how the Marines snipers were lost. According to the The Dallas Morning News, six Marines were lost, and were operating as 2 separate 3 man sniper teams - comprised a sniper, a spotter and security.
Former Marine [Gunnery and sniper Sgt. Jack] Coughlin said it appeared from their number that those ambushed were operating in two two-man sniper teams with one additional Marine each for security. Though they were reservists, there was no reason to think they might have lacked the training or equipment regular Marines get, he added. "They're going to be older, more mature and professionals," Mr. Coughlin said. Most reservists who are snipers "are police officers, and some of them are SWAT team members," he added.
Ansar al-Sunnah has claimed responsibility for the attack on the Marines, and claims 8 were killed and 1 captured. Ansar al-Sunnah also released a video purportedly of the assault and subsequent capture of a dead Marine. The video is of poor quality at points, but at the end, it shows what looks to be a dead soldier, US issued weapons, sniper rifles, M-16 with -203 launchers, dogtags, ammunition, a rucksack and other equipment. If the video is accurate the captured Marine died before he could be tortured.
According to the communiqué, Ansar al-Sunnah set an ambush for the Marines, using mortar fire at a Marine encampment at the Haditha Dam as bait to draw in US forces.
Your mujahideen brothers from the Uthman bin Affan Brigadethat is deployed throughout the town of Burwanah in the northern part of the city of Hadithasucceeded in setting a well-planned ambush targeting the American forces. The men grouped in the Al-Jazirah region, which is a vast, desert-like area that is commonly used by the mujahideen to launch their rockets and Hawn mortar shells targeting the American base at the Haditha dam. The courageous mujahideen lingered in that area for nine days waiting for the American forces to arrive there because they knew that following every massive rocket or mortar bombardment, the Americans come to the area to attack the mujahideen.
Indeed, the Marine forces fell into the ambush when two Humvees approached one of the hills in that area and nine soldiers dismounted from one of the vehicles in order to set an ambush for the mujahideen. However, they fell into the ambush of the mujahideen instead immediately after leaving the Humvee, the mujahideen surrounded them with the intention of capturing them. However, the Marine soldiers opened fire and forced the mujahideen to respond with their own heavy fire backed up with Hawn mortar shells (this occurred before American aircraft arrived on the scene). Shortly thereafter, the mujahideen attacked the soldiers using heavy weapons and managed to approach near the soldiers, some of whom were dead already. As for those who were still dying, the mujahideen killed them. There was another soldier who was wounded, however not in his head, and he kept asking for the help of the mujahideen. That soldier was captured and we have him in our custody, praise be to Allah for his blessing. Before the helicopters arrived on the scene, the mujahideen immediately seized the wounded soldier and all the crusader weapons and returned safe to their bases, praise be to Allah for his blessing
Soon we will record a video of the crusader prisoner who was captured during this operation along with all the weapons that were seized.
They are many discrepancies to be cleared up. Nine Marines dismounting from a single Humvee is highly unlikely. The lack of air support, UAV observation and the support of the vehicle from which the infantry dismounted is curious. Where did the other Humvee move to, and did they return to engage? Is it possible the weapons displayed were purchased on the black market or via other sources?
Effective propaganda includes elements of truth. Based on the video, the Department of Defenses reaction to it, and the known fact that Marines have been killed in combat, it is likely weapons were seized and a Marine was indeed captured. Ansar al-Sunnah has good motivations to claim it killed an entire squad of Marines, for both prestige and recruitment purposes. But the method of the attack is suspect until further information becomes available.
Al Qaeda (of which Ansar al-Sunnah is a part of) is pressing hard in Haditha to eject the US Marines sitting along their ratline. Wretchard points out that the violence in Haditha is very likely part of a greater, as of yet unnamed offensive stretching the length of the Euphrates River. I concur.
Ralph Peter posits that there is another reason Haditha is the focus of operations: to sap the will of the American public. The 3/25 Marines is a reserve unit reserve from Brook Park, Ohio, and is an ideal target to place political pressure on the Bush administration to withdraw prematurely from Iraq and leave the country to the predations of the terrorists.
We must honor these fallen Marines and all those who have sacrificed in Iraq by not giving into the will of terrorists. And we must remember the very real import Iraq plays in the War on Terror. Al Qaeda is committed to the battle, and we must remain committed as well.
http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:B3sOt6_lRYMJ:billroggio.com/archives/2005/08/haditha_marine.php+usmc+stolen+weapons+haditha&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=5
Here's a new story with more information from unamed government official:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5428479&ft=1&f=1001
Well, not so much anymore...you have the OJ trial on one hand...
You have the Duke situation on another...
You're right. I should've said, that's why we have Court Martials.
From Veterans Against The Iraq War www.vaiw.org
Murthas My Lai
By Stan Goff
Stangoff.com, May 18, 2006
-excerpt
"We have a government now running an imperial war that is reeling with corruption scandals, lying scandals, spying scandals, resignations, and the popularity of a roundworm infection. But they are still very big, and they are still very powerful, so we have to hit them over the head with clubs, throw sand in their eyes, bite their fingers, scratch, kick, and otherwise pummel them until they cant get up. The loss of the Hayden nomination combined with a My Lai massacre exposure are terrific blows against this crews ability to govern
and not just here, but out in the empire.
Get dirty. Its time."
Stan Goff also writes an irregular column on military affairs for the Freedom Road Socialist Organization among other things. Check him out on Wikipedia. What a gem.
blech
That's a good way to put it. I have several other words that I could use, if I were a member of DU.
old, but relevent...
Monday 08 November 2004
alJazeera.net
"A large number of attackers, estimated at about 200, ambushed the main police station in Haditha and another smaller one in Haqlaniya," an officer, speaking on condition of anonymity, said.
"The attackers disarmed the police, gathered them together and then shot them dead," he said.
Policemen found their colleagues with their hands tied behind their backs, while the attackers made off with their weapons and about 15 vehicles.
Seen as collaborating with the US-led military, Iraq's fledgling security forces are a top target for groups fighting to drive out foreign armies.
http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:_Kd8d3FV_38J:english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/32923F6F-FEDE-4DCF-AE39-69066BF750F8.htm+usmc+stolen+weapons+haditha&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=27
From a Minnesota NBC Station. It is impossible to tell whose side anyone is on from this article.
Uninvited Marines become part of life for Iraqis
10/27/2005
The Marines call it a necessary evil -- taking over houses and buildings for military use. For the Iraqis who become unwilling hosts, it can be anything from a mild inconvenience to a disruption that tears apart lives.
~~~~
"We try to be respectful and not destroy anything in their homes," said Cpl. Joseph Dudley of Los Gatos, Calif., with the 3rd Battalion, 1st Marine Regiment. "We just borrow their house and try to complete our missions."
~~~~
But the Marines also run the risk of alienating residents.
Dhiya Hamid al-Karbuli, a truck driver from a village near the Syrian border, said he fled with his wife, six children, his brother, sister and mother after U.S. troops commandeered their home last month.
"They broke into my house before Ramadan and they are still there," he told The Associated Press by telephone from his brother's home in Baghdad. "We were not able to tolerate seeing them damage our house in front of our very eyes.... I was afraid to ask them to leave."
"They were eating our food. They took all the food from the refrigerator, and used all our stored junk food too. The major gave me $20 so we could shop for ourselves and for them. It was not enough."
~~~~~
http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:jHSdn6lf0DEJ:www.kare11.com/news/news_article.aspx%3Fstoryid%3D110052+usmc+stolen+weapons+haditha&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=32
Thanks for the link. Hugh Hewitt is the best.
Very well said!
I know nothing about military law, rules of engagement, strategy, etc.
I know what I see.
I see burned bodies hanging from bridges.
I see innocents pleading for their lives before their heads are separated from their bodies with what has been reported as a blade as effective as a pocket knife.
I see a mother disgracing her son's sacrifice for this country.
I go back in time and I see people chanting
Hey,Hey LBJ
How many kids did you kill today.
I see John Kerry accusing the military of atrocities which occur as a matter of course.
I see Viet Nam Vets being spat upon and called baby killers.
The very same people who did that in the 60's and early 70's are part of the left sitting in the Halls of Congress or writing for the MSM.
I see Murtha setting the stage for that to happen again. He may cloak it in what he calls the "stress" our troops experience, but that is not going to wash.
I see the left cloaking their disdain for the military in the phrase I have grown to hate: "We support our troops, BUT...."
I see an enemy so cunning that they have learned more from Viet Nam we have. Viet Nam is their play book. They are playing the left like a fiddle and the left is too stupid, ignorant, naive to see that.
We need to fight this war and we need to fight it to win. My youngest son is 15. I do not know what the future holds for him. Make no mistake...I would be proud if he chose to serve this country, but I do not want to send my child to war.
I have a grandson who is 5 months old. I want him to grow up safe in a country where the news is not dominated by terror threats, dirty bombs, biological warfare.
I do not take collateral damage lightly. But by God, there will be collateral damgage. And you know what? I will admit it...I am human, and I would rather the collateral damage be them and not my family.
You and others are much more eloquent than I, but the sentiment is this same.
It is time we as a nation started acting like we were the greatest, most powerful nation on the face of this earth instead of "this spanking is going to hurt me more than it hurts you,son."
What Happened in Haditha?
by Mary Katharine Ham
May 27, 2006 06:07 AM EST
http://hughhewitt.com/archives/2006/05/21-week/index.php#a002287
(Click on link for more)
Something very bad happened in Haditha on Nov. 19, 2005. One Marine and 24 Iraqis died in the wake of a roadside bombing, which hit a Marine convoy. Fifteen of the 24 casualties were civilians, some women and children. Was it the fog of war? Were the civilians "collateral damage?" Or was it a deliberate massacre?
We don't know. The investigation is ongoing and no Marine has yet been charged.
But you'd have trouble discerning that from reading press coverage of the incident. Time originally reported the incident in March, under the headline "Collateral Damage or Civilian Massacre in Haditha?"
Earlier this month, Congressman and retired Marine John Murtha announced at a press conference that U.S. Marines had killed innocent civilians "in cold blood," referring to the incident in Haditha. The press conference was a political event held to mark the 6-month anniversary of Murtha's high-profile political failure of 2005-- his call for cutting and running in Iraq.
Because Murtha decided to convict his brother Marines before their trial, the press got the soundbite it needed to do the same. The headlines largely dispensed with the question posed in the original Time piece. Today, the phrase "in cold blood" brings up 1,450 Google News hits. It's been the headline of the month.
The Haditha story picked up pace this week as Pentagon sources close to the investigation started leaking word that there may be murder charges in the case. The Marine Commandant's trip to Iraq has also piqued interest.
The Post has been unable to get anyone from the Pentagon on the record on the investigation, using mostly anonymous sources. The one man they did get on the record on Friday was retired Brig. Gen. David H. Brahms, a long-time lawyer with the Marine Corps who has experience with these types of cases. His quote is in the third paragraph. See if you can guess why the prominent first-quote placement:
"When these investigations come out, there's going to be a firestorm," said retired Brig. Gen. David M. Brahms, formerly a top lawyer for the Marine Corps. "It will be worse than Abu Ghraib -- nobody was killed at Abu Ghraib."
I have a feeling someone was lying in wait for an Abu Ghraib reference. I read the quote and was taken aback because I spoke to the same Brig. Gen. David M. Brahms about the case this week, and his sentiments were very different from those presented in the Post. Which explains why he sent me this statement yesterday:
"Recent reporting on the events in Haditha, Iraq have included significant factual errors and/or misleading statements. This includes a quote attributed to me in the Washington Post this morning that was taken completely out of context and its meaning distorted. Many facts that are favorable to the Marines involved have not yet been disclosed."
When Brahms and I spoke, he made it clear that his concern is that the Marine Corps do a thorough investigation and punish severely those who did wrong, if in fact it is found that they did. He feels confident that will happen. His other concern is that the Marines involved get a fair trial in a highly politicized environment:
"The worst thing that can happen in a case of this kind is to have it politicized...that's exactly what has happened here. They're leaking a story which is yet unwritten."
"It's not normal to have a Member of Congress to decide to have hearings, at least while this whole business is in flux."
"I think there has been (a rush to judgement)...This has got to impact the fairness of the procedure."
"We'll get more precise information. Let's kind of step back, let's try to realize that there's another side of this story...People accused may be guys like my son and your brothers."
"The problem is, of course, that everybody's got a political agenda...in the middle are a group of American Marines."
Those quotes are all taken from a phone interview I did with Brahms this week.
Brahms confirmed what press reports have said, that charges in two investigations-- an NCIS investigation of the incident itself and an Army investigation of whether there was a cover-up of the incident-- are likely to come in mid- to late-June or July, with military justice proceedings in August.
Brahms did mention Abu Ghraib during our conversation. He's hoping Haditha does not turn out to be a similar black mark on the American military and the war effort in Iraq. He's also hoping press coverage won't make Haditha a black mark even before the investigations are complete.
If indeed Marines acted out of line, they will be punished, he said, and he's confident the Corps will be circumspect in its investigations. Three commanders were sacked in the immediate aftermath of the incident.
Folks on the anti-war Left are crowing that Friday's leaks mean "Murtha was right," as Oliver Willis put it.
Well, no. Murtha said Marines murdered civilians in cold blood. The leaks say Marines may be charged with murder in the case. We've got charges and a trial to go before Murtha can be right.
It's an important process, during which much more truth will be revealed about this incident than can come out through leaks.
If Marines did murder civilians without regard, then Haditha is a name that will rightly forever bear the same kind of shame for the American people and the American military as My Lai. But conferring My Lai status upon this Iraqi town before the truth is out is irresponsible.
It is Memorial Day Weekend. Our men in uniform certainly deserve the presumption of innocence and a little patience from us, no matter our positions on the war.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1639642/posts?page=165#121
Jack Murtha has gone OVER the edge...see # 121
I see I have been foolishly debating a troll. I am indeed sorry for wasting everybody's time.
EOM
I think you are looking in the mirror Mr Spock.
Here is your "execution style" quote
http://fairuse.100webcustomers.com/nws/latimes38.htm
"The wounds indicated execution-style" shootings, said a Defense Department official who had been briefed on the contents of the photos.
I would also call that hear-say. Someone said someone saw something and said it looked like something. This is a game of "telephone".
AKA "Gossip!"
Thanks for the new posts and links...I am in the middle of something...but will be back later.
Great stuff...
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