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Looking at tax alternatives
The Edmund Sun ^ | April 20, 2006 | Bob O’Bar

Posted on 04/22/2006 5:39:00 AM PDT by Eaglewatcher

EDMOND— How much of your time and money did you spend getting your taxes filed this year? Your time is worth something even if you use a software program to do your taxes. Your time is worth something gathering up all the information to give to your hired tax preparer.

Multiply that by the number of taxpayers and corporate taxpayers and you can plainly see how much a burden our current tax code is on the taxpayers of America. You can get mad, just like I do each middle of April, but the inevitable has to occur. Did you know that a portion of our tax money goes to pay the salary of some 113,000 IRS employees? What a large number of employees. Yet, it probably takes that many employees to administer the thousands of pages of tax code.

A 2001 press release from Sen. Chuck Grassley indicated that 51 percent of the hours IRS employees spent on the Internet were for personal usage; some 47 percent of the e-mails sent to the IRS were personal; that 25 percent of taxpayers calls to the IRS went unanswered; during the 2001 filing season, an Inspector General employee made contacts at walk-in assistance sites and seven times they were denied service, got incorrect answers 49 percent of the time and insufficient answers 24 percent of the time. Calling the toll-free assistance line found no one could be reached 37 percent of the time and did not receive the requested service 47 percent of the time. Finally, it was determined that in fiscal year 2000, the IRS spent $1.3 billion for contractors to the IRS. While that is an older release, it is clear taxpayers are not getting what they are paying for. The IRS is a failure by any measure.

All this caused me to seek a better method of delivering my money for the federal government to use. Obviously, the current method eats up too many resources that could be better used by our government. I found there has been a bill filed by Rep. John Linder as H.R. 25 (see his Web site http://linder.house.gov).

Here’s a brief overview of The Fair Tax Act: “1. Repeals all corporate and individual income taxes, payroll taxes, self-employment taxes, capital gains taxes, estate taxes and gift taxes. 2. Imposes a revenue-neutral personal consumption tax on all new goods and services at the point of final purchase. Business-to-business transactions and used products, which have already been taxed, are not subject to the sales tax. 3. Rebates the sales tax on all spending up to the poverty level.

“Results of the FairTax: Dramatically reduce the costs of goods and services by 20 to 30 percent. Allows you to keep 100 percent of your paycheck, pension and Social Security payments. Gross Domestic Product will increase by almost 10.5 percent in the first year after enactment. Compliance costs would decrease by 90 percent. Real investment would initially increase by 76 percent relative to the investment that would be made under present law.

“While this increase would gradually decline, it remains 15 percent higher than under the existing tax structure. Exports would increase by 26 percent initially and would remain more than 13 percent above the level under the current tax system. Real wages will increase. Increases incentives to work by as much as 20 percent in many households, leading to higher economic growth and efficiency. Interest rates will fall 25 to 35 percent.” This is a much better choice than our current method. Any change has to be better than we have now. Since lobbyists have been partially responsible for the convoluted tax code we now have, getting this passed may be a challenge. It seems to me that taxation based on spending is more fair than any other method. If you don’t spend, you don’t pay.

Take a look at the Fair Tax Web site for answers to all your questions, http://www.fairtax.org/. I found many articles about how the tax would work in detail, and how this tax proposal handles families at or below the poverty level. It appears about every question or issue is addressed in the Fair Tax legislation. Being responsible to properly fill out several pages of forms just plain stinks.

In today’s world, we need and deserve a better method, a more efficient method. Gains in efficiency alone will be a great benefit. Eliminating paperwork, employees and delivering that money to the federal coffers more efficiently is an idea that is over due. We must eliminate the IRS as we know it today. We are too modern an economy and people to continue to be burdened by antiquated tax methods that favor some and not others. We need fairness in our taxation. The FairTax is that method.

A final point is made by Yahoo News: “Sen. Ron, D-Ore., did not prepare his real tax returns, but he was able to prepare a hypothetical tax return in 30 minutes based on his proposed simplified tax system. This last fact is truly revolutionary because no one can remember the last time a member of the tax-writing Senate Finance Committee actually completed their own tax return.” Need I say more?

Just as people marched over pending immigration law, if we marched over taxation, we can assure a change will occur. Our politicians need a loud roar from the taxed to change what is being done. When you have a method of taxation that makes you pay a penalty for paying too little or too much, you know something has to be done. Everyone should pay their fair share. But that share should not be wasted on bureaucracy and paperwork. Let your representatives in Washington know how you feel. If you don’t, we will be filling out the same pages of forms this time next year. Remember, it is up to us to see that they get it right.

(Bob O’Bar can be contacted at rto4nmm@sbcglobal.net.)


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Constitution/Conservatism; Government
KEYWORDS: economy; fair; fairtax; fraudtax; scam; tax
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To: Eaglewatcher
Take a look at the Fair Tax Web site for answers to all your questions, http://www.fairtax.org/. I found many articles about how the tax would work in detail, and how this tax proposal handles families at or below the poverty level. It appears about every question or issue is addressed in the Fair Tax legislation. Being responsible to properly fill out several pages of forms just plain stinks. In today’s world, we need and deserve a better method, a more efficient method. Gains in efficiency alone will be a great benefit. Eliminating paperwork, employees and delivering that money to the federal coffers more efficiently is an idea that is over due. We must eliminate the IRS as we know it today

If we get this through next April 15th will be just another spring day

if you email this link

http://www.geocities.com/cmcofer/ftax.html

to just 10 people - better to everyone on your email list - and they mail it to 10 - we can reach millions of people - indeed, do the math - by the 7th round - it's 10 million people. (Now probably not everyone will email to 10 - but for those who email to more - it can fill the gap...include the note to call and/or send notice to your congress critters that we demand this - and they'll sit up and take notice.

This is the biggest chance at returning government to us - and making the 'representatives' true representatives once again instead of pompous, puffed up potentates ruling from the top

This is the ONLY chance we will ever get...the libs know that under a no IRS system, socialism doesn't stand a chance,

61 posted on 04/22/2006 5:58:42 PM PDT by maine-iac7 ("...but you can't fool all of the people all of the time," Lincoln)
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To: robertpaulsen

Less than it costs today as anyone who observes consumer electronics prices and their histories could tell you. No other "economic argument" is needed at all.

That's part of what the marketplace action means. But since you pretend to be so knowing, I'd have thought you'd already have know that.

As I originally said, robert ... incorrect reasoning - VERY!!!


62 posted on 04/22/2006 5:58:47 PM PDT by pigdog
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To: Tzimisce
They are not going to change the tax code - not ever. That is how they lord over the rest of us.

not with that attitude

It's time NOW - and we've never had a better chance = to stand up and shout...The illegals know how to do it.

Why can't we - WE need to let them all know we DEMAND this.

This is actually more important to our freedom that the illegal problem - and the illegals will NOT get a prebate - they will pay the sales tax from dollar one - that will generate billions - but wont be very pleasing to the illegals.

63 posted on 04/22/2006 6:03:56 PM PDT by maine-iac7 ("...but you can't fool all of the people all of the time," Lincoln)
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To: Conservative Goddess
so many monuments of deficient wisdom

and they are called Congressmen and Senators

This bill is now set to be enacted by NEXT JAN if passed!

it it NOW that we must bombard the media, Washington, letters to the editors to educate people and GET this PASSED.

Settle for nothing else.

Socialism will be stopped dead in it's tracks.

We will experience real freedom - and our GROSS paychecks = for the first time in our lives.

No more "April 15th", no more watchdogs hovering over us, no reporting to anyone about where we work, how much we make, where we spend it -

Businesses, especially small Business, will be free from matching payrolls taxes and the bookkeeping - they will be able to hire more people, more will be able to offer health insurance - it goes on and on. TRUE FREEDOM...

Print this link out

http://www.geocities.com/cmcofer/ftax.html

- email the link to everyone on your list - let WAshington know we demand this - it's in the pipeline - if we make them pass it , it will take effect next JANUARY. YOu will never have to think about income tax returns again.

Admit it, the very thought is liberating.

64 posted on 04/22/2006 6:17:16 PM PDT by maine-iac7 ("...but you can't fool all of the people all of the time," Lincoln)
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To: Conservative Goddess
I'm sorry to say that you are correct in your assessment. I believe we need to revolt...peacefully at first.......by refusing to play along....refusing to file and remit our taxes.

WHAT!!!

Pay attention. This bill is already in the pipeline and if passed, it will take effect NEXT JANUARY.

No one will need to refuse to send in their returns - there will be nowhere to sent them - there will be NO IRS!

the IRS will be dismantled and all the records destroyed.

The time in NOW or never.

Print this out - email the link to everyone you know...make a loud noise that is heard in DC...

About FAIR TAX:

http://www.geocities.com/cmcofer/ftax.html

We must act now...FREEPERS have shown how to be effective - how to be heard. WE need to reach everyone we know, we need to knock down the doors in DC, be heard echoing the halls. We need to pound our media sources to beat this drum loud and constantly.

WE need to get out the poster board and make the signs. WE have to make ourselves visible and loud - the illegals are certainly getting the media attention that way - even Cindy SheeA*s gets attention. It's time for the silent majority to roar.

Liberalism and socialism will wither on the vine - which is why we must act now. (It would be a super issue for the fall election - who wouldn't want to vote for the people who will get rid of the IRS.

WE gotta stop sitting and sucking our thumbs. This is the greatest chance we will ever have. And the world is watching with interest. If we get this passed, other people in other countries will demand it. Then, before you know it - the world is free -

65 posted on 04/22/2006 6:30:57 PM PDT by maine-iac7 ("...but you can't fool all of the people all of the time," Lincoln)
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To: robertpaulsen
If the employer gives you your whole paycheck rather than sending a portion of it to the IRS, his "cost" of business remains the same.

Guess you never owned a business or been self-employed?

The employer has to send not only what he keeps from your check of YOUR money, but he has to send matching - that's the same amount - from HIS pockets. (That's why the income tax on self-employed people is DOUBLE) - and the employer has to send the matching funds on EACH employee.

That a hell*va big COST of his doing business.

66 posted on 04/22/2006 6:36:59 PM PDT by maine-iac7 ("...but you can't fool all of the people all of the time," Lincoln)
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To: bog

No! I am not from Edmon.


67 posted on 04/22/2006 6:37:29 PM PDT by Eaglewatcher
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To: Badray

in a nutshell!


68 posted on 04/22/2006 6:47:21 PM PDT by maine-iac7 ("...but you can't fool all of the people all of the time," Lincoln)
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To: Badray
That bridge in Brooklyn . . . Why don't you take a flying leap from it? What is your interest in keeping this Marxist tax?

I'm beginning to suspicion that maybe bobbyPaul is in a bracket where he'll be paying his FAIR share - doesn't want those loopholes tightening up - ?

Otherwise, he just has a super thick skull?

69 posted on 04/22/2006 6:55:31 PM PDT by maine-iac7 ("...but you can't fool all of the people all of the time," Lincoln)
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To: Eaglewatcher

I just asked since I'm familiar with the area.The Edmond Sun isn't a major newspaper by any standard.


70 posted on 04/22/2006 8:41:50 PM PDT by bog (http://bigokieguy.blogspot.com/ is my new BLOG)
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To: robertpaulsen
Yes its somewhere between $22 and $24 (well at least for the federal). This is why the Fair Tax settles right between it at $23 or 23% of every $100.
71 posted on 04/22/2006 9:39:45 PM PDT by Sprite518
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To: maine-iac7

I've come to the conclusion that those defending the status quo because of personal comfort factor would have been among those who didn't want to risk the 'peace' by resisting and antagonizing the Crown. They are more comfortable as subjects than as freemen.


72 posted on 04/22/2006 11:35:40 PM PDT by Badray
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To: Badray
"Do you have any support in Congress for your proposal to cut 90% of spending?"

Who's proposing that? I said lower spending to 10% of GDP. 2005 GDP was $12.4 trillion. I'm asking for a 50% cut in spending. Balancing the budget, privatizing social security, and introducing MSA's is a start.

"Has anyone introduced your plan? Has the president pledged to sign it if it hits his desk?"

Yes to both.

73 posted on 04/23/2006 5:35:52 AM PDT by robertpaulsen
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To: Man50D
"Under the current system, about 23% percent of the price of that 100 dollar item is tax collected throughout the production chain."

So right now the U.S. Government is living off that 23% (from the production chain) plus another, what, 20-25% in personal income taxes?

And you propose to replace all that government income with just a 30% tax?

Are you starting to understand why you have no credibility?

74 posted on 04/23/2006 5:42:09 AM PDT by robertpaulsen
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To: pigdog
Thank you for your non-answer answer. It just shows me that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, and that you just want me to accept this boondoggle on faith.

Sorry. Fresh out.

75 posted on 04/23/2006 5:44:48 AM PDT by robertpaulsen
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To: maine-iac7
"Guess you never owned a business or been self-employed?"

Since 1986.

Whether I give those matching funds to the employee (they're his, by the way) or send them to the IRS, my cost of doing business is identical.

Now, if you're suggesting that, under the Fair Tax, the employer is going to keep those matching funds, then the article is misleading when it says, "Allows you to keep 100 percent of your paycheck, pension and Social Security payments"?

76 posted on 04/23/2006 5:52:35 AM PDT by robertpaulsen
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To: maine-iac7
"I'm beginning to suspicion that maybe bobbyPaul is in a bracket where he'll be paying his FAIR share - doesn't want those loopholes tightening up - ?"

Ooooh. Are you admitting that the "Fair Tax" may not be so fair after all? But since those who would end up paying far more are outnumbered by those who would pay less, screw 'em.

Keep in mind that this was the same strategy used for the original income tax idea -- "it will only affect the top 2% of earners".

Class warfare. Works every time. You gotta be proud.

77 posted on 04/23/2006 5:58:11 AM PDT by robertpaulsen
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To: robertpaulsen
So right now the U.S. Government is living off that 23% (from the production chain) plus another, what, 20-25% in personal income taxes?

And you propose to replace all that government income with just a 30% tax?

Are you starting to understand why you have no credibility?


Your figures are not credible when you consider the top 50% of income earners pay 96.54% of all taxes! The bottom 50% of income earners don't pay an income tax! Shifting taxes from income to consumption will force all income earners to pay some amount of tax at the point of purchase.
78 posted on 04/23/2006 6:21:48 AM PDT by Man50D
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To: balrog666; coloradan
Too easy and too many problems solved that way.

Please....you have got to be kidding. Easy? How?

Congress has no interest in doing either of those things...why?...b/c we are almost at the point where the minority are paying all the taxes and the majority are getting handouts, so not enough people are going to be yelling b/c they won't care! We need a system where most carry and are aware of their chunk of the tax bill so that ALL have an interest in what the Congresscritters are up to THEN, when most have a vested interest via their pocket book, will we be able to demand accountability and limited government.

Soon it will be too late.
79 posted on 04/23/2006 6:38:22 AM PDT by socialismisinsidious ( The socialist income tax system turns US citizens into beggars or quitters!)
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To: Man50D
"Shifting taxes from income to consumption will force all income earners to pay some amount of tax at the point of purchase."

Yes, I understand. And they will pay that Fair Tax of 23% which replaces the 23% that is currently being collected throughout the production chain and paid by the corporations. I got it.

Now, what replaces the money the federal government was receiving from personal, not corporate, income taxes?


80 posted on 04/23/2006 6:42:51 AM PDT by robertpaulsen
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