Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Looking at tax alternatives
The Edmund Sun ^ | April 20, 2006 | Bob O’Bar

Posted on 04/22/2006 5:39:00 AM PDT by Eaglewatcher

EDMOND— How much of your time and money did you spend getting your taxes filed this year? Your time is worth something even if you use a software program to do your taxes. Your time is worth something gathering up all the information to give to your hired tax preparer.

Multiply that by the number of taxpayers and corporate taxpayers and you can plainly see how much a burden our current tax code is on the taxpayers of America. You can get mad, just like I do each middle of April, but the inevitable has to occur. Did you know that a portion of our tax money goes to pay the salary of some 113,000 IRS employees? What a large number of employees. Yet, it probably takes that many employees to administer the thousands of pages of tax code.

A 2001 press release from Sen. Chuck Grassley indicated that 51 percent of the hours IRS employees spent on the Internet were for personal usage; some 47 percent of the e-mails sent to the IRS were personal; that 25 percent of taxpayers calls to the IRS went unanswered; during the 2001 filing season, an Inspector General employee made contacts at walk-in assistance sites and seven times they were denied service, got incorrect answers 49 percent of the time and insufficient answers 24 percent of the time. Calling the toll-free assistance line found no one could be reached 37 percent of the time and did not receive the requested service 47 percent of the time. Finally, it was determined that in fiscal year 2000, the IRS spent $1.3 billion for contractors to the IRS. While that is an older release, it is clear taxpayers are not getting what they are paying for. The IRS is a failure by any measure.

All this caused me to seek a better method of delivering my money for the federal government to use. Obviously, the current method eats up too many resources that could be better used by our government. I found there has been a bill filed by Rep. John Linder as H.R. 25 (see his Web site http://linder.house.gov).

Here’s a brief overview of The Fair Tax Act: “1. Repeals all corporate and individual income taxes, payroll taxes, self-employment taxes, capital gains taxes, estate taxes and gift taxes. 2. Imposes a revenue-neutral personal consumption tax on all new goods and services at the point of final purchase. Business-to-business transactions and used products, which have already been taxed, are not subject to the sales tax. 3. Rebates the sales tax on all spending up to the poverty level.

“Results of the FairTax: Dramatically reduce the costs of goods and services by 20 to 30 percent. Allows you to keep 100 percent of your paycheck, pension and Social Security payments. Gross Domestic Product will increase by almost 10.5 percent in the first year after enactment. Compliance costs would decrease by 90 percent. Real investment would initially increase by 76 percent relative to the investment that would be made under present law.

“While this increase would gradually decline, it remains 15 percent higher than under the existing tax structure. Exports would increase by 26 percent initially and would remain more than 13 percent above the level under the current tax system. Real wages will increase. Increases incentives to work by as much as 20 percent in many households, leading to higher economic growth and efficiency. Interest rates will fall 25 to 35 percent.” This is a much better choice than our current method. Any change has to be better than we have now. Since lobbyists have been partially responsible for the convoluted tax code we now have, getting this passed may be a challenge. It seems to me that taxation based on spending is more fair than any other method. If you don’t spend, you don’t pay.

Take a look at the Fair Tax Web site for answers to all your questions, http://www.fairtax.org/. I found many articles about how the tax would work in detail, and how this tax proposal handles families at or below the poverty level. It appears about every question or issue is addressed in the Fair Tax legislation. Being responsible to properly fill out several pages of forms just plain stinks.

In today’s world, we need and deserve a better method, a more efficient method. Gains in efficiency alone will be a great benefit. Eliminating paperwork, employees and delivering that money to the federal coffers more efficiently is an idea that is over due. We must eliminate the IRS as we know it today. We are too modern an economy and people to continue to be burdened by antiquated tax methods that favor some and not others. We need fairness in our taxation. The FairTax is that method.

A final point is made by Yahoo News: “Sen. Ron, D-Ore., did not prepare his real tax returns, but he was able to prepare a hypothetical tax return in 30 minutes based on his proposed simplified tax system. This last fact is truly revolutionary because no one can remember the last time a member of the tax-writing Senate Finance Committee actually completed their own tax return.” Need I say more?

Just as people marched over pending immigration law, if we marched over taxation, we can assure a change will occur. Our politicians need a loud roar from the taxed to change what is being done. When you have a method of taxation that makes you pay a penalty for paying too little or too much, you know something has to be done. Everyone should pay their fair share. But that share should not be wasted on bureaucracy and paperwork. Let your representatives in Washington know how you feel. If you don’t, we will be filling out the same pages of forms this time next year. Remember, it is up to us to see that they get it right.

(Bob O’Bar can be contacted at rto4nmm@sbcglobal.net.)


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Constitution/Conservatism; Government
KEYWORDS: economy; fair; fairtax; fraudtax; scam; tax
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-80 ... 181-189 next last
To: robertpaulsen

That's assuming the item is sold here. But again, I live in FL, funded solely on sales tax. We all knwo what the item costs, and what the taxes are on top of it.

All the FairTax does is take our current tax burden out of the shadows and splatter it all over a sales receipt for everyone to see.

The psychological effects of that are worth it all. We currently have a nation of ignoramuses who think that if they get a refund in May, they're really screwing the IRS! Meanwhile, our entire economy is depressed because of them, and withholding is the novicaine that dopes up the overburdened taxpayer.


41 posted on 04/22/2006 1:10:47 PM PDT by ovrtaxt (My donation to the GOP went here instead: http://www.minutemanhq.com/hq/index.php)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: robertpaulsen

Are you so damnably ignorant of how the FairTax would operate that you make such idiotic assumptions?? Guess so - or maybe you're just adamantly opposed to the FairTax no matter what because you like the Status Quo so much.

Many of the things imported will not be taxed at all since they go into items for resale. Of those taxed as standalone things, raising their price will have the effect of reducing their sales unless the maker finds ways to lower his prices to offset some or all of the tax.

You make the ridiculous assumption that all imported things are taxed (they aren't) and that something that might cause a boost in price at first will stay at that level forever (it won't). In fact, there's ample lead time after the FairTax bill passes before it takes effect for foreign manufacturers to make such adjustments.

You may not understand how the market forces operate (obviously you don't) - but they're going to go right on operating that way regardless of your beliefs.

The US goods exported being cheaper may help foreign buyers, but primarily the benefits will redound to the benefit of the US manufacturers and the US economy. Your thinking is really screwed up, robert.

As for US goods prices undercutting that of foreign manufacturers and those countries adding a punitive tariff to gain an advantage, it's clearly safe to say that you know nothing of the WTO agreements (which, BTW, presently keep us from artificially removing our income tax costs from goods while the FairTax structure complies with WTO regs and DOES allow it). It's not so easy any more so that you can add or remove costs (taxes, tariffs) to export items under such an agreement. Just ask the US State department (and/or the Dept. of Commerce) which has been trying to find ways to remove our tax costs from goods presently and isn't allowed to under the WTO agreements which also restrict tariffs.


42 posted on 04/22/2006 1:21:41 PM PDT by pigdog
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: robertpaulsen

Again, if they wish to take advantage of the Fair Tax, they can move their operations to the U.S.

Do you understand why many shipping companies run foreign flags on their ships?
http://www.lowtax.net/lowtax/html/offon/greece/gressm.html
It's because of our corporate taxes.

There are many countries with lower taxes on corporations;
http://www.lowtax.net/lowtax/html/offon/offonhom.html
-and that is why they are located there.


43 posted on 04/22/2006 1:26:42 PM PDT by FBD (surf's up!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: lewislynn

Once again, Looey you're missing the discussion (and are wrong to boot).

What was being discussed was the claim by this poster that his company paid no tax when they purchased something from another company today. I was pointing out that his observation was untrue. The argument had nothing to do with the relative amount of the tax costs he's actually paying vs the FairTax - NOTHING!!!

If you can't read and understand (talk about carrying coal to Newcastle ... we actually know you can't from the many posts where you've demonstrated this), then stay out of the discussion.


44 posted on 04/22/2006 1:31:44 PM PDT by pigdog
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: robertpaulsen

You're wrong on both counts. The present tax may be "built in" but it is you who pays it.

His competitors will force him to lower his prices since their costs will also drop and they'd no doubt like to carve out a piece of his business for themselves if he doesn't respond. This applies whether its a US or offshore situation.


45 posted on 04/22/2006 1:35:36 PM PDT by pigdog
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: robertpaulsen

Absolutely incorrect reasoning, robert.


46 posted on 04/22/2006 1:36:47 PM PDT by pigdog
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: robertpaulsen
Currently, if my company buys something for resale, my company pays no tax. If my company buys capital equipment, it's tax deductible. So there's no "business-to-business" tax today.

I think you mean that my suppliers will charge me less for their products which means I can charge less to my customer. As I stated before, I don't believe it for a minute.

You're assumption of what you thought I meant to say couldn't be more off base. Corporations pay taxes to the IRS. This a cost that is passed onto all customers of that business, including other businesses. Each business in turn passes on that cost. The result is embedded/Value Added Taxes(VATS)at each stage of production. Companies are therefore paying a business to business tax. The Fair Tax will eliminate taxes on business transactions. Consequently all embedded/VATS will be eliminated.
47 posted on 04/22/2006 2:19:39 PM PDT by Man50D
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: Tzimisce

You can get on our side and help us push. Any other stand makes your prediction all the more likely.

Our history has many examples of things that the grassroots has forced on government. We can do this too.

C'mon over. You'll make lots of great new friends (and a few enemies -- like those who protect the status quo) and you'll be doing a great thing for America and yourself and kids and their kids and . . .


48 posted on 04/22/2006 2:26:46 PM PDT by Badray
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: robertpaulsen

That bridge in Brooklyn . . .

Why don't you take a flying leap from it?

What is your interest in keeping this Marxist tax?


49 posted on 04/22/2006 2:29:38 PM PDT by Badray
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: robertpaulsen

Wow!

Your ignorance -- presuming that you aren't just lying -- is astounding.

Are you being paid to spread this nonsense?


50 posted on 04/22/2006 2:32:37 PM PDT by Badray
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Badray
What's the lie? C'mon. Pick it apart. Tell me where I'm lying.

You got nothin'. What a waste of my time.

51 posted on 04/22/2006 3:59:20 PM PDT by robertpaulsen
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 50 | View Replies]

To: Badray
Kiss my a$$. You're rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic with this stupid "Fair Tax" boondoggle.

The government's proposing a $2.8 trillion budget for 2007, and you're trying to figure out a better way to give it to them. Cut spending to 10% of GDP, THEN figure out the best way to give it to Congress.

52 posted on 04/22/2006 4:05:34 PM PDT by robertpaulsen
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 49 | View Replies]

To: FBD
"There are many countries with lower taxes on corporations ... and that is why they are located there."

Is that right? I thought it was the cheap labor cost.

Taxes, huh? Learn something every day.

53 posted on 04/22/2006 4:14:41 PM PDT by robertpaulsen
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: Man50D
"Companies are therefore paying a business to business tax."

You're defining the business to business tax as the hidden corporate income tax built into the product I'm buying. Is that your own definition? And I was suppose to know that how?

Whatever. If I pay $100 for the product, how much of that $100 is this hidden "business to business" tax? Just an estimate will be fine so I know what you're talking about.

54 posted on 04/22/2006 4:21:23 PM PDT by robertpaulsen
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]

To: pigdog
"Absolutely incorrect reasoning, robert."

How much will an imported DVD player cost me under the Fair Tax if it costs $100 today?

Defend any price lower than $130. with a solid economic argument (not "they'll have to find a way to lower the price to be competitive" bull$hit).

55 posted on 04/22/2006 4:26:57 PM PDT by robertpaulsen
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: robertpaulsen; Man50D
I will answer that for you.

Right now we pay the taxes of the Manufacture, the distributor, and the Marketer. If you believe corporations pay taxes, then I have some beach front property in Afghanistan to sell you.

Who pays all the marked up taxes. Your answer is you and me as the consumer and individual tax payer.

The Fair Tax would be a radical transfer of power from the government to the people. You will only be taxed by what you consumed.
56 posted on 04/22/2006 4:29:46 PM PDT by Sprite518
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 54 | View Replies]

To: Sprite518
"Your answer is you and me as the consumer and individual tax payer."

But of course. I don't argue that. I never did.

I'm asking just how big a bite that is. Do you know? How much of that $100 item is hidden corporate taxes of the Manufacture, the distributor, and the Marketer?

Is it $10. $25.? $50? Is it maybe $3.? Give me a number. Can you?

57 posted on 04/22/2006 4:35:57 PM PDT by robertpaulsen
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 56 | View Replies]

To: robertpaulsen
I'm asking just how big a bite that is. Do you know? How much of that $100 item is hidden corporate taxes of the Manufacture, the distributor, and the Marketer?

Is it $10. $25.? $50? Is it maybe $3.? Give me a number. Can you?


Under the current system, about 23% percent of the price of that 100 dollar item is tax collected throughout the production chain. So you really purchased a $77 dollar item and 23 dollars of Hidden tax.
58 posted on 04/22/2006 4:50:02 PM PDT by Man50D
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 57 | View Replies]

To: robertpaulsen

Pick what apart? All you do is take cheap shot one liners. I gave you the benefit of the doubt that you were merely ignorant of the FairTax.


59 posted on 04/22/2006 4:53:58 PM PDT by Badray
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 51 | View Replies]

To: robertpaulsen

No, I don't think that I will.

Tell me how successful you have been in the last 8, 16, 24 or even 40 years in getting spending down?

Do you have any support in Congress for your proposal to cut 90% of spending?

Has anyone introduced your plan? Has the president pledged to sign it if it hits his desk?

Do you have a plan to win over the American people in support of your plan?

Have you convinced all of the special interests groups to forsake their desire for government (taxpayer) largesse?

No, I don't think you do, can, or will. I think that it is more likely that you are protecting the status quo for some narrow self interest and are just hiding behind your '90% spending cut' BS.


60 posted on 04/22/2006 5:02:12 PM PDT by Badray
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 52 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-80 ... 181-189 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson