Good News on FairTax

Town Hall . Com ^ | 4/13/06 | Herman Cain

[Eaglewatcher]

of good news is that support is growing for complete replacement of the tax code with a national consumption tax. More and more taxpayers are demanding action from their representatives in Congress, and their representatives are listening.

Just one year ago, there were 33 sponsors and co-sponsors of HR 25, The FairTax Act, in the U.S. House. Now there are 53 supporters, and new co-sponsors are joining every month. In the Senate, Senator Saxby Chambliss (R-GA) was the lone sponsor of the FairTax Act, S 25, one year ago. Senators Tom Coburn (R-OK) and John Cornyn (R-TX) now join Senator Chambliss as co-sponsors. The word is spreading about the overwhelming benefits to our economy and our wallets when we replace the nine-million-word tax code mess with the fair and simple FairTax.

[Principled]

ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/special.requests/ce/standard/2001/income.txt

[William Terrell]

You post contains everything from prior posts. I had to read the last one all the way throough to glean the one or two sentences that were new. Please isolate your new points and post them. I have only so much time I can devote to these discussions.

[MarkL]

If you aren't paying your way, you shouldn't have a say in government.

Actually, this is something that I've given a lot of thought to over the years. I believe that if an income tax is required, it's only fair that large tax payers have a greater say in what happens in politics... And that there are certain choices that you make in life that should also make your vote count for more.

For instance, I've always thought that every citizen should have 1 vote. Even if they pay nothing in taxes. They would get an additional vote for every $10,000 in federal taxes they pay. If they were in the military, they get an additional vote for every year they served in active duty. And another vote for every combat tour they served.

Mark

[MarkL]

Among the many things I like about the flat tax.. one is that Chinese goods would be taxed the same as American goods.

Huh? The flat tax doesn't tax goods at all. It's an income tax.

Mark

[Bigun]

Did we have the operation of government when those papers were written that we have now?

No! Precisely because they had the good sense to not allow the form of taxation we currently suffer!

In your estimation what single event played the larger role in breaking the chains that originally bound our government?

[Bigun]

The potential for abuse is far greater on the consumption end than on the income end.

Huh??? You must be joking here William. You cannot really believe that to be true.

We currently have a rogue agency of the government (IRS) with the ability to destroy anyone it chooses at a whim and seek to replace it with nothing! The government would no longer have need to know even so much as one's NAME for tax collection purposes!

[Mojave]

Folks spend, irrespecive of their "income".

For example, welfare recipients who would recieve a "prebate" for money never earned and taxes never paid.

[RobFromGa]

Why do you assume all poor people are on (sic) welfaire?

I don't assume that. Many poor people work. My point is that in America people have every opportunity (often at public expense- think schools, libraries, skill training programs) to improve their lot in life.

The fact that some choose to stay poor, and make those choices that made them poor in the first place, is not my business, as I cannot force them to make smarter, better choices.

[Your Nightmare]

Folks spend, irrespecive of their "income".

Golly, who could spend without income? Hmmmm...

(You also need to understand averages and how they can skew population tendencies. If I have 20 spending $5,000 a year and 5 people spending $50,000 a year, the average is $14,000. Is that very helpful in determining the true spending level of those 25 people?)

Very few will spend little enough to profit on the rebate. Indeed, this table indicates that nobody will.

Yup, 'cause everyone knows there's really no one living in poverty.

This is what irks me about you FairTax people. You see something that obviously doesn't add up and, because it helps your argument, you don't ask question. It's intellectually dishonest.

[RobFromGa]

We currently have a rogue agency of the government (IRS) with the ability to destroy anyone it chooses at a whim and seek to replace it with nothing!

The Happy Tax Collection centers will be every bit as burdensome on our eceonomy as they go after the inevitable black market. Businesses will be esp. hard hit as they document and prove and ask for rebates for all their legitimate business expenses.

There is no way that a 30% tax will be collected without stern and unforgiving compliance agents.

[Mojave]

The official U.S. poverty rate is 12.7%

Sounds like the 95% figure must have been derived using some of their special "fair" taxer math.

Hmm, I wonder if illegal aliens and felons in prison get the "prebate"?

[RobFromGa]

But that should be sufficient to demonstrate that you don't belong in this debate.

It is difficult to keep up with the FairTax distortions, misrepresentations, and half-truths, but someone has to do it to keep the uninformed from thinking that this plan makes any sense. Luckily, on FreeRepublic there are a number of people who are willing to spend the time to debunk the same old wrong FairTax assertions every time they are posted.

If you are interested in DEBATE, you threw out the assertion the federalist 21 would seem to argue for the FairTax. I responded to your assertion several times and refuted your claim, and you have not responded.

Have you figured out how the FairTax bill supplies the Hamiltonian brake on government spending that you claim it does?

[Your Nightmare]

We currently have a rogue agency of the government (IRS) with the ability to destroy anyone it chooses at a whim

Pure hyperbole.

[RobFromGa]

I think that illegal aliens would NOT get the prebate, not sure about felons in prison. Felons in prison do not pay the FairTax because they do not make retail purchases, but the government will pay the 30% FairTax on the food and supplies that they purchase to run the prison. They will probably get the prebate, since it is universal, or they will fight that they are being unfairly treated.

[tpaine]

You post contains everything from prior posts.

My post shows our discussion, in context, along with all of the points you've ignored.

I had to read the last one all the way throough to glean the one or two sentences that were new.

Your 'new' points ignore points made previously.

Please isolate your new points and post them.

Please address the overall issue. Arguing about isolated points only serves to extend the discussion.

I have only so much time I can devote to these discussions.

All the more reason to clarify your overall objections to the FairTax, and your reasons for supporting the unconstitutional income/withholding mess.

[Your Nightmare]

I think that illegal aliens would NOT get the prebate, not sure about felons in prison.

Prisoners would not get the "prebate." Who knows what would happen if illegal aliens were reclassified as guest workers.


BTW, Neal Boortz is debating Michael Graetz on the FairTax on C-SPAN 2 in just a few minutes (9:30 am Eastern). Graetz shoves some of the lies in his face (he even has an email from Jorgenson).

[ran15]

The flat tax doesn't tax goods at all. It's an income tax.

Oops I meant the fair tax. I also like the flat tax though. I'm actually considering moving to Eastern Europe partly because of their flat taxes. My work I can do from anywhere..

It seems fair to pay 13% of your income to taxes. 50% like the democrats want, with all federal and state taxes.. no thanks, I don't want to work 6 months of the year so a bunch of leeches can live off me.

[Mojave]

Are you sure? I thought felons could in many systems make small purchases at the prison canteen of things like deodorant, candy and toothpaste.

[Your Nightmare]

That's 10:30 am Eastern.

[Polybius]

......it would tax the underground economy. The current income tax system gives the economic advantage to the cheater and the crook.

It would "tax the underground economy" as effectively as Prohibition rid America of alcohol and it would eliminate tax crime just as effectively as Prohibition eliminated untaxed moonshine.

In order to cheat and leave no paper trail under the income tax system, you have to be a partner in crime with your employer or be self employed. The risk of getting caught is so high that most employers in legitimate businesses won't go there even if they are self employed.

In order to cheat and leave no paper trail under the Fair Tax system, you merely need to be a partner in crime with one of the tens of thousands of black market sellers that will be selling stolen goods out of their car trunks or selling untaxed services for cash.

For the Average Joe, a 23% savings will be a huge incentive to tax cheat by purchasing goods and services on the black market. For the average crook, the huge demand for untaxed goods will be a equally huge incentive to engage in the theft of such goods.