Posted on 04/09/2006 5:16:52 PM PDT by wagglebee
DURHAM, N.C. (AP) - Time-stamped photographs will show an exotic dancer was already injured and "very impaired" when she arrived at a party where she claims she was raped by members of Duke University's men's lacrosse team, an attorney for one of the players said Sunday.
Durham attorney Bill Thomas said some of the photographs, taken when she arrived at the house, indicate the woman was injured before getting to the party March 13. They show extensive bruises and scrapes on her legs, especially around the knees, he said.
"This young lady was substantially impaired. She had fallen several times during the course of the evening," Thomas said.
He declined to identify the player he represents and said he would not release the photos, taken by at least two cameras, until pending DNA tests are completed.
He also wouldn't say whether the photos were taken by a lacrosse team member or someone else; court documents have indicated that only team members were present at the party.
No one has been charged in the case, but the allegations that members of the nearly all-white team raped the woman, a black student at a nearby university, have rocked both Duke and Durham.
The allegations have led to the resignation of coach Mike Pressler, the cancellation of the lacrosse season and the suspension of one player from school.
Several dozen people gathered Sunday outside the house where the party took place, and pledged to return each Sunday until the case is resolved.
"Whether I want to believe it, or whether you want to believe it, something took place in there," said Johnny Williamson, 36, of Durham. "Something indecent took place."
District Attorney Mike Nifong, who was expected to return this week from an out-of-town conference and has not commented on the case in the past several days, has said previously he is confident a rape occurred. Court documents said a medical exam of the alleged victim found injuries consistent with sexual assault.
The victim has not returned repeated messages seeking comment, but her father said Sunday she hasn't changed her story.
"I expect them to say that," he said of the lawyers' contentions his daughter is lying.
The woman and the other dancer arrived separately, Thomas said, and performed briefly before leaving. The victim told police she and the other dancer left because they feared for their safety, but were later convinced to come back inside.
Thomas said the photos contradict the alleged victim's assertion she was scared, as they show her standing at the door of the off-campus house with "a major grin on her face" as she tried to get back inside.
"People inside the house have stated she was banging on the door, attempting to regain entry," Thomas said.
The woman told police she was pulled into a bathroom and assaulted after coming back into the house. But Thomas said the woman locked herself in the bathroom, where police later found her purse, cell phone, and several artificial fingernails she claimed to have lost during a struggle with her attackers.
Thomas said one of the attorneys representing team members had interviewed the other dancer extensively, and she said the alleged victim never told her about a rape.
"All of these statements you've heard ... about this brutal assault, rape, kidnapping and robbery which occurred, I believe that the public will soon be able to learn the truth, and that these allegations are totally false and without merit," Thomas said.
Both the team's captains and attorneys for team members have said the DNA tests, which may be completed this week, will prove the allegation are false. The players' attorneys also have raised other questions about the allegations, saying e-mails written in the hours after the alleged attack will help prove the players' claims that nothing happened that night.
Attorneys also have raised suspicions about a 911 call, made shortly after the alleged attack would have occurred, from a black woman who claimed someone at the party shouted racial slurs at her and a friend. The caller alternatively told police the pair were driving and walking past the house. Thomas said Sunday he and other attorneys believe the second dancer at the party made the call.
"These young men have been absolutely vilified in the press," Thomas said. "I think this week we will go a long ways toward clearing these young men's names. I can assure you that this has been a nightmare for each and every one of them."
Here's the link on the Kobe Bryant out-of-court settlement before you all say I fabricated that too.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7019659/
You are being disingenuous and I'm being kind.
The context of that bring brought up (Kobe's paying the accuser) was when someone posted that, How COULD she make money off this, I don't think that's the motive?
I have work to do, apparently you can argue your feelings all day long.
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They have to have something to match the DNA, too, sure; but it doesn't necessarily have to be semen; I've not seen it reported anywhere that it was semen, have you?
Bush and company are behind this whole incident.
So why take samples? According to what I read, she went to the hospital. I assume they took a sample from her, which, I presume, is why they took samples from the players.
This on timing in the Kobe case:
The announcement came less than a week after the two sides called off a deposition by Bryant. It was to be his FIRST statement under oath since the June 2003 encounter at a Colorado mountain resort hotel where Bryant was staying while having knee surgery at a Vail clinic. Lawyers for the woman, then employed at the resort, were likely to grill Bryant about his sexual history in the deposition, which was scheduled last Friday in Orange County, Calif., where he lives.
So, again, where am I wrong?
Source: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/2005-03-02-bryant-settles_x.htm
It's true that this site gets some newbies who are here only to make trouble, but I think it's clear that's not what you're doing. If our site busybodies tattle on you to the site moderators, I hope the mods will be fair and give a good long look to your posts, which I think you've made in good faith; and I for one am interested in what you have to say.
That said, here's a similar article you may be interested in, if it hasn't been posted already:
Attorney: Party pics help players
Here's a quote from that Raleigh News & Observer article that might back up a theory you've posted...
The dance lasted less than four minutes, Cheshire said, when the second dancer stopped the performance after an offensive remark from a player.
I think it's plausible that the two women were both upset over some racial remark, and that at least one of them cooked up this half-baked rape story as a way of getting revenge.
Trolling can include newly appearing on a board simply to incite it about a topic we would be discussing rationally anyway.
It certainly feels as if that is the case here. I thought it was telling how quickly Howlin was attacked even though she is factually on much the same side. That is another common "tell."
I should have directed my last post at Howlin.
I want to correct that before she thinks it has a deep, dark meaning.
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Agreed, but first you need to determine if intercourse even took place. The players deny that it happened.
Keep in mind that having her boyfriend's semen wouldn't prove a whole lot other than the fact that they had sex recently- it is hardly mindblowing concept that she had sex with her boyfriend earlier in the day.
It could be relevant for the defense, especially if Nifong sticks with this theory that the players could have worn condoms. If the SANE exam showed vaginal injuries consistent with rape, and the defense could prove she had had sex very recently with her boyfriend, they could argue rough sex with (or even rape by) the boyfriend accounted for the vaginal injuries, raising reasonable doubt. As far as other men having sex with her, if she denies she had other clients that night it may be difficult for police to discover their identities in order to collect their DNA. It would be useful to know how long after sex semen could still be recovered from a woman in a DNA exam.
Thank you !! I did not misrepresent myself, I was honest from the beginning.
I will check into your link and then be gone for a week.
But, Like the Governor of California said "I'LL BE BACK"
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And people who use the "troll" word often do so to start a fight. Is that your objective?
Actually, I like Howlin. I just didn't like jabs at the poster rather than the facts. And I have been really into this thread. I post rarely due to people like you.
"And people who use the "troll" word often do so to start a fight. Is that your objective?
Actually, I like Howlin. I just didn't like jabs at the poster rather than the facts. And I have been really into this thread. I post rarely due to people like you."
Nope. I'm just analyzing the situation. These things follow certain patterns and it seems a pretty good fit in this case. You, for example are fitting nicely as the White Knight - that's an honorable role so no offense is intended.
One of the attorneys was on TV yesterday with the information Nifong gave the judge in order to get a search warrant; in it he stated flatly that the DNA "would positively" identify the player, or words close to that.
Evidently they are now going to say that if he was that sure when he went for the DNA, he cannot not say that they might have worn condoms -- and that he cannot say that lack of a match doesn't mean anything.
I got the impression these guys are not going to take much crap off Nifong.
Also if (since?) Kim was the 911 caller and had repeated the address three times during the 911 call, and in any event had driven Mangum away from the address, why couldn't Kim give the address? Or didn't Kim initially claim that she found Mangum wandering around at some unspecified location?
If Mangum and Kim didn't give the address to the police immediately (i.e. in the Kroger parking lot), then how could the police get a warrant to search an unknown location. If Mangum or Kim later "remembered" details, such as the address, that would be enough to delay the search.
Anyone know: which way was it? When did the police get the address?
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In an earlier thread I had a question about the cars and how Mangum planned to get home. If Mangum and Kim arrived in separate cars 30 minutes apart, because they didn't know each other, how did Mangum plan to get home? It's been suggested Mangum was dropped off and was to call for a ride. That makes sense, but is a dumb plan for an experienced stripper to make. Mangum may be that dumb. OTOH, if Mangum arrived in her own car, she must have gone back the next day to get it, since Mangum's father reports that she brought her car home the next day saying she wasn't going to drive it for a while.
Here's another question. If Kim and Mangum didn't know each other before that night, and there had been no prearrangement for Kim to drive Mangum home, why did Kim, knowing the night's work was over and being outside in her own car, and seeing Mangum go back into the house alone, and not knowing that Mangum was "in danger", and knowing that Mangum had alternate transportation home, why did Kim hang around outside in the car for 30 minutes waiting on Mangum? Because Mangum asked total-stranger Kim to? Why didn't Kim, who must have been impatient to leave, go get Mangum? Maybe Kim wasn't impatiently waiting in the car but doing something else she doesn't want to admit?
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The more I think about this, the more I believe Kim is the key to unravelling this whole sordid tale. She clearly doesn't want to be involved as evidenced by her lying to the police. If Kim's really skipped town, does this favor Mangum or the lax team?
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p.s. Stop reading now. Really, don't read the following. OK, if you're still reading it's your fault. I try to keep the following under control but as a former prof I just can't help myself being the grammar police. I ask your forgiveness in advance. "La Crosse" is the name of any number of towns/cities in the U.S. and Canada. "lacrosse" is the name of the sport in question. It's often written "lax" where the "x" represents the "crosse" in "lacrosse". Thank you for your tolerance of my condition.
White knight? I like it!
"One of the attorneys was on TV yesterday with the information Nifong gave the judge in order to get a search warrant; in it he stated flatly that the DNA "would positively" identify the player, or words close to that."
One thing that seems clear is that the early public statements expressing certainty before the reults were in were a mistake.
"Nope. I'm just analyzing the situation. These things follow certain patterns and it seems a pretty good fit in this case. You, for example are fitting nicely as the White Knight - that's an honorable role so no offense is intended."
OK, then. Peace. Can't qualify as a white knight, though. Just a female that wonders "why can't we all just get along".
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