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Boy Suspended For Carrying Knife Into School (He turned it in, still getting expelled)
The Indy Channel ^ | April 3, 2006 | Ap

Posted on 04/03/2006 10:02:15 AM PDT by Abathar

INDIANAPOLIS -- A school principal in Indianapolis suspended an eighth-grader for 10 days and recommended he be expelled for carrying a pocket knife, even though the boy said he had forgotten the weapon was in his coat pocket and turned it over to school officials as soon as he entered the building.

An expulsion hearing has been scheduled for April 10.

Elliot Voge, 14, told Stoneybrook Middle School principal Jimmy Meadows he forgot that he had left the Swiss Army knife in his pocket after using it to whittle wood last month. The next day, just after he was dropped off at school by a classmate's mother, he said he discovered the knife in his coat and immediately went to the office.

Nevertheless, Meadows suspended him and recommended expulsion. The action stunned the boy's parents, who hired a lawyer to represent him at the hearing next week.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events; US: Indiana
KEYWORDS: zerotolerance
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To: HitmanLV
Honesty isn't always the best policy.

No doubt. Its like a Jewish girl turning her Jewish parents over to the Nazis and expecting them to do nothing harmful to her.

Fairly sure the kid won't trust "officials" ever again.

81 posted on 04/03/2006 10:40:49 AM PDT by Windsong (Jesus Saves, but Buddha makes incremental backups)
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To: Littlejon

In the 80s an outdoor survival class was required for moving beyond middle school where I grew up. Part of it consisted of gun safety, and we had to carry BB guns around a lot (with the teacher watching for unsafe acts). We also had to bring knives to do various survival lessons.

I wonder if that school still teaches that class. And if they do, do the kids bring knives and walk around with guns?


82 posted on 04/03/2006 10:40:55 AM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: SoftballMominVA

Adults make stupid decisions every day, too. Should knives be universally banned?


83 posted on 04/03/2006 10:43:06 AM PDT by Sloth (Archaeologists test for intelligent design all the time.)
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To: Abathar

My dad and then my husband, carried a pocket knife every day of their life. I think my father in law did too. I always assumed that it was something a man had in his pocket, like his billfold and sometimes a pocket hanky. My sons had to obtain the cub scout certification (yes, cub scout, not boy scout) and then each was allowed to own a knife. I remember going with my second son to puchase a small Swiss Army Knife. Oh my goodness. He was so proud.


84 posted on 04/03/2006 10:43:20 AM PDT by Mercat
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To: Oztrich Boy

"Zero tolerance" has come to mean "zero brains for administrators" (sometimes not that much of a step down, come to think of it...). Was it not Solzenitsyn that lamented that the West had gone from a society of Law to a society of [mere] Rules?


85 posted on 04/03/2006 10:43:41 AM PDT by Tirian
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To: Sloth

They are in some situations aren't they?


86 posted on 04/03/2006 10:43:56 AM PDT by SoftballMominVA
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To: brazzaville
The cadets who were honest, who admitted to cheating were kicked out, while those who cheated and kept quiet about it continued on to become officers.

Honesty is not the best policy when dealing with corrupt and/or stupid people in positions of authority:

"...when you see corruption being rewarded and honesty becoming a self-sacrifice - you may know that your society is doomed." -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged

87 posted on 04/03/2006 10:44:12 AM PDT by Mr. Jeeves ("When the government is invasive, the people are wanting." -- Tao Te Ching)
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To: SoftballMominVA
"LALALALAlalala!!!! I Can't Hear You!!!"

I'd be interested to see any rational defense of your position than you might possibly be able to give.

Seriously.

It utterly flies in the face of my experience from childhood, to raising children, to teaching in middle school and high school.

But, in all that time, maybe I've missed something.

88 posted on 04/03/2006 10:44:31 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilisation is aborting, buggering, and contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: Tirian
Correction: "Zero tolerance" has come to mean "zero brains for administrators" (sometimes not that much of a step down, come to think of it...). Was it not Solzenitsyn who lamented that the West had gone from a society of Law to a society of [mere] Rules?

Our teen carries his Swiss army knife to school every day and uses it regularly -- oh wait a minute, never mind, he's homeschooled.

89 posted on 04/03/2006 10:46:22 AM PDT by Tirian
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To: SoftballMominVA
Seriously why does anyone take the word a newspaper at total face value when we've seen over and over how stories are manipulated.

Serioiusly, this is a multipled sourced story. The story posted is a short story that mostly detailed one said, but the story I linked to provided every detail to the questions you asked and included many excerpts from the prinicples expulsion letter that did nothing but verify everything this kid and his parents have said. You first objection had some rationality to it, but you have fallen off that wagon.

90 posted on 04/03/2006 10:47:06 AM PDT by Always Right
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To: SoftballMominVA
I know where you're coming from. 90% of the time, when you hear something that sounds that ridiculous, the story omits crucial details that paint a far different picture.

I suppose I'd say that if this is all there is to the story, the principal is completely wrong. But many times, lawyers will advise their client to say nothing, so you really don't get the full story until the actual trial/hearing.

From the principal's comments, he really appears to be saying that its a zero tolerance policy, and that's the end of the matter. I think he's pretty clearly wrong on that, but we'll have to see how it comes out.

The principal may be reluctant to create an "I forgot" precedent that will let students who bring weapons to school intentionally claim they just forgot about it later if it's discovered. I still think that's crummy rationale, because there's no harm in letting a student turn in a knife or something before it is discovered rather than after.

Anyway, I don't blame you for your skepticism. We've all been burned too many times by one-sided stories that turn out not to be completely true.

91 posted on 04/03/2006 10:47:50 AM PDT by XJarhead
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To: Abathar

Zero-Intelligence policies. Same punishment he'd get if he left it in his pocket and got caught.

And less than he'd get if he harrassed a teacher.

If he had simply walked back out of school and gone down to a local illegal immigrant rally he'd probably not even get punished.


92 posted on 04/03/2006 10:47:58 AM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: ArrogantBustard
We have different opinions about the matter and that is good and healthy. I just don't see a need for a child to bring a knife to school. You see it as a some sort of right of passage. I don't have any huge philosophical or moral reason for my views, they just are.

I will totally acknowledge that it probably comes from raising 2 girls, and not boys. Although my younger daughter owns several Swiss army knives, 2 rifles and a shotgun. But she doesn't take them to school. Is there a need for her to take any of those things to school?

93 posted on 04/03/2006 10:49:03 AM PDT by SoftballMominVA
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To: Sloth; SoftballMominVA
"Knives have no place in a school. "Why?" This whole episode illustrates the extent of "feminization" of the public schools -- ant the extent to which they've become "anti-boy". (The public schools in Canada are the same.) I would be very surprised to learn that knitting needles are considered weapons at that same school. When I was in school, every boy carried a knife -- without incident. We played nimbly-peg, or whittled during recess -- among hundreds of (non-weapon) uses for a pocket knife that arise daily.
94 posted on 04/03/2006 10:50:43 AM PDT by USFRIENDINVICTORIA
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To: atruelady

spam them to death.they deserve it


95 posted on 04/03/2006 10:50:52 AM PDT by CGASMIA68
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To: samadams2000

In your dreams!


It would seem that you don't have experience with private schools.

The power brokers are the big donors; what they say goes.

I've been on staff at a private Christian school. They had drug, sex, and all the same other problems, just more successfully hidden.

Also, private schools are magnets for misfits that can't handle public schools.


96 posted on 04/03/2006 10:50:58 AM PDT by Eagle Eye (There ought to be a law against excess legislation.)
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To: Frapster

Oh yes, even pointy objects like pens and pencils can be weapons. The only writing instruments that should be allowed in publik skrewls are jumbo crayons. And never mind Ritalin, the kids should all be kept in line with Thorazine.

When I was in middle school, some of the students would spend some of their free time fly-tying - as in fishing flies. Get done with some studying, and the tool kits would emerge. Small vises, scissors, tweezers, exacto knives. All probably banned these days under zero tolerance policies. Same kids would these days get expelled for talking about shotgun chokes, dressing a deer, setting traps for ground hogs, etc. The publik skrewls are out to create a generation of nancy-boys.


97 posted on 04/03/2006 10:52:34 AM PDT by Fred Hayek (Liberalism is a mental disorder)
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To: Abathar
My father gave me a boy scout pocket knife for my 8th birthday. I carried it every day from second grade on through high school. It was never an issue at school. We only got in trouble if we carried a switch-blade or a hunting knife with a blade longer than 3 inches.

Funny thing is, I don't think the schools are safer now than they were back then.

98 posted on 04/03/2006 10:53:30 AM PDT by Bubba_Leroy (What did Rather know and when did he know it?)
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To: SoftballMominVA
You are wrong and part of the problem! What about the cafeteria dip s@#t? How about wood shop and home economics...the list goes on.
99 posted on 04/03/2006 10:54:42 AM PDT by CGASMIA68
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To: Abathar

Zero tolerance. What a wonderful policy. They have just taught this kid to be dishonest. He will remember this lesson forever.


100 posted on 04/03/2006 10:54:49 AM PDT by bk1000 (A clear conscience is a sure sign of a poor memory)
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