Immigration is not the pox neo-Know Nothings make it out to be

The Jewish World Review ^ | 4/31/2006 | Tony Snow

[Luis Gonzalez]

Princeton University sociologist Douglas S. Massey reports that 62 percent of illegal immigrants pay income taxes (via withholding) and 66 percent contribute to Social Security. Forbes magazine notes that Mexican illegals aren't clogging up the social-services system: only 5 percent receive food stamps or unemployment assistance; 10 percent send kids to public schools.

~~~~snip~~~~

Economist Larry Kudlow praises Hispanic entrepreneurship: "According to 2002 Census Bureau data, Hispanics are opening businesses at a rate three times faster than the national average. In addition, there were almost 1.6 million Hispanic-owned businesses generating $222 billion in revenue in 2002."

~~~~snip~~~~

Total crime and property crime in California are half what they were in 1980; violent crime has fallen more than a third. The state's Hispanic population during that time has increased 120 percent.

[pandoraou812]

hmmmm. I guess then I am one of the know nothings. I disagree with the article. I dont want anyone shoving their country's flag down my throat, no matter where they are from. I say this, if you want to come into this country do it the legal way. Otherwise you are breaking the law. Why didnt this article mention the latino gangs that are on the uprise , like the MS-13?

[jmc813]

I'm convinced the people who don't seem to know the difference do indeed understand, but it doesn't suit their purposes, so they ignore it.

You're correct. Even President Bush is sadly guilty of this.

[inquest]

The Know-Nothings were against legal immigration.

And they were violent about it, too. Their whole name derived from the fact that whenever any trouble occurred, their members were instructed to say "I know nothing." Anyone claiming that it's "just an historical reference" and "not really ad hominem" is just piling dishonesty on top of dishonesty.

[brytlea]

I'm sure I'll be slapped down for saying it by someone, but I am sorely disappointed in him over this. He was certainly the best candidate we had to choose from, however his handling of the border issue and illegal immigration really makes me question what on earth he's thinking. I hate to imagine that it's what it sort of looks like....
susie

[texasbluebell]

Do those pushing for this amnesty and citizenship for illegals understand that once these 20 million or so are legalized, they will be anchors, and then can bring in their family members?

We're not talking about "only" 20 million additional citizens.

We're looking at probably a minimum of 3 additional people for each new citizen.

IOW, 80 to 100 million new people in a short time.

There is no way the social fabric of this country can survive that large an influx in a short time.

[r9etb]

The Know-Nothings were against legal immigration. Freepers are against illegal immigration. Big difference.

However, the stated concerns of the old know-nothings, and Snow's "neo" version, are quite similar -- you can see it on this and other thread: "colonization," increased crime, corruption, etc.

Snow's a pundit, and by their nature pundits like nifty turns of phrase. I'm not going to get all twisty-pantsed over his choice of words, since it's not really crucial to his argument (such as it is) -- it makes sense in context, if you don't try to push it too far (and Snow didn't).

[Texas_Jarhead]

"...since statistics on the "bad" effects of illegal immigrations are likewise suspect."

I would tend to believe that statistics relating to the increases in cost of uninsured medical treatment over time and the cost increases for incarceration of illegal aliens and finally the increasing % of non-English & ESL students paint a fairly clear and reliable pictures of the public costs associated with illegals.

[hosepipe]

[ Immigration is not the pox neo-Know Nothings make it out to be ]

Yes it is.. Immigration produces democrats.. enliving the treason party..

[investigateworld]

I guess I shouldn't believe my lying eyes when I saw my little county build and open 6 brand new welfare centers,at 100,000 feet plus lease a old K-Mart center to process the welfare checks for the newly legalized citizens in 92-93.

Even though they were using Federal money, they got waivers from the Davis Bacon Act as the pressing need was so great. Plus I was on the union negotiating committee at the time. The percentage of funds going to social service (welfare) practically tripled.
Dam these lying eyes!

[Rodney King]

Princeton University sociologist Douglas S. Massey reports that 62 percent of illegal immigrants pay income taxes (via withholding) and 66 percent contribute to Social Security.

What a load.

1. Who does the witholding? All those illegals who you see waiting on the corner for a job work for cash.

2. Even for illegals who pretend to be legal, do you think they are honest about the number of dependents when they fill out their w-2's?

[kesg]

When someone's very first act in the USA is breaking one of our laws then they are not someone I want in my country.

If that's the criteria, we better start deporting everyone who is guilty of speeding on the freeway. Tony Snow is absolutely right about this issue. He is absolutely right about most issues. :)

Not only that, but the GOP risks handing the Democrats the Hispanic vote for the next 40 years. I don't want that. And if you are a Republican, you don't want it either. This is how the GOP lost California in the 1990s. These people are natural conservatives, but only if you treat them like what most of them are: human beings who want a better life for themselves. President Bush refused to make the same mistake in Texas, and the results speak for themselves.

[Caveman Lawyer]

Beat me to the point about the proportion of the prison population. That's a known quantity.

[Butcher Kilroy]

Great news but totally irrelevant to the central discussion which is that our immigration laws are not being enforced.

[Do not dub me shapka broham]

Does Larry Kudlow realize that if we follow his prescription for economic prosperity, i.e. massive immigration, open borders, and importing sub-minimum wage scab labor from third world countries, that his ideology, i.e. unbridled free market capitalism, will become extinct in this country?

[adam_az]

"Get ready for the usual hyperbolic anti-immigrant knee jerkers."

You're an ass.

Stop confusing IMMIGRANT with ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT.

Then I'll stop calling you an ass. Ass.

[inquest]

This is how the GOP lost California in the 1990s.

That lie gets constantly trotted out by the Open Borders Lobby, and there's never anything to back it up. How did Prop 187 pass if it was so unpopular?

[nina0113]

I'm convinced the people who don't seem to know the difference do indeed understand, but it doesn't suit their purposes, so they ignore it.

Yep. It's just their charming little way of slandering us all as racists. I'm very disappointed, though (saddened too) - I had expected better from Tony Snow.

[jmc813]

I'm not going to get all twisty-pantsed over his choice of words

Me neither. I'm just a little disappointed in that this is unlike Tony. He's usually very civil to his opponents. I don't know why he must resort to name-calling here.

[ARealMothersSonForever]

"What is an ITIN?
An Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (ITIN) is a tax processing number issued by the Internal Revenue Service. It is a nine-digit number that always begins with the number 9 and has a 7 or 8 in the fourth digit, example 9XX-7X-XXXX.
IRS issues ITINs to individuals who are required to have a U.S. taxpayer identification number but who do not have, and are not eligible to obtain a Social Security Number (SSN) from the Social Security Administration (SSA).
ITINs are issued regardless of immigration status because both resident and nonresident aliens may have U.S. tax return and payment responsibilities under the Internal Revenue Code.
Individuals must have a filing requirement and file a valid federal income tax return to receive an ITIN, unless they meet an exception"
http://www.irs.gov/individuals/article/0,,id=96287,00.html
It is one thing to be oblivious about something, quite another to make statements in wanton deception or ignorance.

[r9etb]

I would tend to believe that statistics relating to the increases in cost of uninsured medical treatment over time and the cost increases for incarceration of illegal aliens and finally the increasing % of non-English & ESL students paint a fairly clear and reliable pictures of the public costs associated with illegals.

I don't dispute it -- Tammy8's comment was on-target. My comment was simply that it's two sides of the same coin: if you say that there's not enough knowledge to accurately gauge the positive impacts of illegal immigrants, you must likewise state that you cannot accurately gauge the negative impacts.