Evolving doors: Students say they wouldn’t mind hearing both sides (Re Intelligent Design)

AP via News/Tribune ^ | 3-14-06 | kyle lowry

[HEY4QDEMS]

Would you accept if ID was taught as something other than science, perhaps an alternative literature or cultural course?

[Coyoteman]

There is proof that humans and dinosaurs lived at the same time (in fossil records), proof of a world wide cataclysmic event (layers of flood sediment uniform around the entire globe),

Could you please post or cite some evidence for either of these beliefs.

[CarolinaGuitarman]

"Why don't you tell us why and how our universe was created from nothing? You can't, because there is no evidence for evolution and a big bang event."

It's always amusing to see anti-evos link the Big Bang, a cosmological theory, with evolution, a biological theory. They have absolutely NOTHING to do with one another. Evolutionary theory developed a hundred years before the BB was formulated. And the BB was actually WORSE for the theory of evolution than the previous theory in cosmology, the Steady Sate Model, in the sense it put a constraint on how long evolution had to work. The Big Bang made the amount of time evolution had to work finite, while the earlier Steady State Model had an infinite universe, with no beginning.

"There is proof that humans and dinosaurs lived at the same time..."

Um, no.

BTW, ID says the Earth is billions of years old, and that evolution happened, just that it was directed by a *designer* (which, according to Behe, could be dead). Your claims above are NOT ID, but YEC.

" proof of a world wide cataclysmic event "

Nope.

"proof that petrification doesn't take millions of years (actual experiments showing it can be done in weeks)"

Nope.

"and proof of living creatures that were supposedly extinct millions of years ago (but somehow still living)."

A handful out of millions of extinct species. And most of these are NOT the same species as the ones in the fossil record millions of years ago, but the same FAMILY.

[Physicist]

Do you think Jews are afraid people won't believe the Holocaust isn't true?

Assuming your double negative was unintentional, and not intended to be patently offensive, I would say yes. Moreover, the Jews are entirely right to be afraid.

[ThinkDifferent]

Why don't you tell us why and how our universe was created from nothing?

I don't know. But I'd prefer to investigate using tools of rational inquiry, rather than attributing it to magic and thinking that I've learned something.

You can't, because there is no evidence for evolution and a big bang event.

Hilariously incorrect.

[Sun]

“Further, he (the Pope) seems to be cautioning those who have been claiming Church endorsement of the full-bodied, design-defeating version of Darwin's theory of evolution, which, after all, is often little more than philosophical materialism applied to science,” added Chapman.

Chapman noted that in his very first homily as Pope, Benedict XVI had rebuked the idea that human beings are mere products of evolution, and that, like his predecessor, John Paul II, the new Pope has a long record of opposition to scientific materialism.

excerpt from: http://www.discovery.org/scripts/viewDB/index.php?command=view&id=3015&program=News&callingPage=discoMainPage

[Sun]

"Just because some percentage, even a majority, of students want to hear "both sides of a controversial issue", it does not follow that both sides should be taught. Holocaust denial comes to mind."

That's a good argument for NOT teaching evo.

Thanx.

[Physicist]

That's a good argument for NOT teaching evo.

How do you figure? Both the Holocaust and evolution are accepted as historical facts by almost everyone who's in a position to know. Overwhelmingly, the people who raise questions about either are those with an ulterior agenda.

[AD from SpringBay]

Why wouldn't they include all religious creation myths?

I didn't know evolution covered creation. The other side of evolution wouldn't cover creation, would it?

[freerepublic007]

Do you really think that millions of scientists are conspiring to keep information contrary to evolution out of academia? There are hundreds of websites, books, community college classes, etc that could clarify these very naive claims for you but it seems that creationists aren't willing to do some simple unbiased research to learn more about why 99.999% of scientists agree about the Theory of Evolution. I don't think I could put it any better than you did:

"Do some honest research, and quit regurgitating old misproven theories and stories. The facts are available, and I hope people learn them for themselves."

[Sun]

I do have an ulterior agenda - my agenda is TRUTH.

[Physicist]

How old is the Earth?

[Mikey_1962]

I went to Catholic grade school, & high school; creationism was taught in Religion class, and in Comparative Religion class where we learned about several religions' beliefs.

Pretty much an endorsement to me!

Evolution was taught in Biology and Microbiology. What was your Catholic school experience?

[Sun]

How old is digression?

[HEY4QDEMS]

I went to puplic school.

My daughter went to Catholic schools from Grades 1 thru 12 and is currently attending a Catholic college.

Her education in creationism was the same as yours.

Which is really my point, most ID proponents insist that it be taught as a science. If they would accept it as being taught as a cultural or literature subject, they may have better success in getting it into the classroom.

[HEY4QDEMS]

"puplic" = public

Damn puplic[sic] schools.

[FreedomWatcher]

Both theories, Big Bang or Evolution, (which are almost always linked by today's scientists) have no basis in fact, evidence, or even sound reasoning. While this forum is not appropriate for the lengthy debate needed, here are some pages with links AND references.

Humans and Dinosaurs--Several sites have shown both human hand and foot prints fossilized in the same strata as dinosaur prints. How is that possible if they were seperated by millions of years of evolution? It's not possible. The tracks had to be made very close together in time. Take a look at the fossils at the Paluxy River fossils near Glen Rose Texas found in 1908 and fossils found in 1999 near Tuba City, Arizona. These are only 2 examples of many.

This site shows a teddy bear and a paper rose that went through the same process of petrification, not in years, but days.

http://www.creationtruthministries.org/pages/883912/index.htm

The earth is covered in geologic layers that scientist propose show the age of the earth. What they can't show is how these layers were formed. Here is a site that will explain the misconception the scientists accept as fact, and how these layers are actually sediment from a world wide flood.

http://www.rae.org/revev2.html

This site also talks about supposedly extinct animals are still living, specifically the coelacanth, the same animal in fossil records, NOT a new member of the family. If one can do it, others can too.

All I want to do is encourage people to study for themselves and not take blindly statements made by others as fact.

[CarolinaGuitarman]

"Both theories, Big Bang or Evolution, (which are almost always linked by today's scientists)"

No, they are linked ONLY by creationists. They have not a thing to do with each other. Nothing.

"have no basis in fact, evidence, or even sound reasoning."

Preposterous.

The *footprints with dinosaur* tracks are all fakes, especially the Paluxey ones.

"The earth is covered in geologic layers that scientist propose show the age of the earth. What they can't show is how these layers were formed. Here is a site that will explain the misconception the scientists accept as fact, and how these layers are actually sediment from a world wide flood."

Good lord, YEC's really are amusing. The geological strata were relatively dated by creationists in the decades before Darwin.

"This site also talks about supposedly extinct animals are still living, specifically the coelacanth, the same animal in fossil records, NOT a new member of the family."

Sorry, you are dead wrong. Coelacanth is not the name of a species. The species alive today is not the same from the fossils.

[FreedomWatcher]

Simply amazing . . .

Argument without proof. It takes faith to believe in evolution. Sounds like a religion.

I freely state I have faith in my belief. Do you?

[CarolinaGuitarman]

"Simply amazing . . ."

Yes, your ignorance is astounding.

"Argument without proof."

I never said I had proof. Unlike you, I DO have evidence though for evolution.


"It takes faith to believe in evolution. Sounds like a religion."

Another alleged Christian bashing religion.

"I freely state I have faith in my belief. Do you?"

I don't need faith. I have evidence.