Danger Zone - (Haleigh Poutre)

National Review ^ | February 01, 2006 | Wesley J, Smith

[Ohioan from Florida]

In the court (and courts) of life and death, a little 11-year-old Massachusetts girl named Haleigh Poutre could be the next Terri Schiavo. For those who have not heard the tragic story, Haleigh was beaten nearly to death last September, allegedly by her adoptive mother and stepfather. The beating left her unconscious and barely clinging to life.

Within a week or so of the beating, her doctors had written her off. They apparently told Haleigh's court-appointed guardian, Harry Spence, that she was "virtually brain dead." Even though he had never visited her, Spence quickly went to court seeking permission to remove her respirator and feeding tube. The court agreed, a decision affirmed recently by the supreme court of Massachusetts.

And so, no doubt with the best of intentions, a little girl who had already suffered so much was stripped by the Commonwealth of Massachusetts of even the chance to fight to stay alive. If she didn't stop breathing when the respirator was removed, which doctors expected, she would slowly dehydrate to death.

Close Call

Then came the unexpected:

[TheSpottedOwl]

Is that why that thread was pulled, because someone trolled it? How sick is that : (

[T'wit]

The Boston Globe seems to be one of those papers who regard it to be a copyright violation if Free Republic posts one of their stories. FR is obliged to remove such posts (and accompanying threads) to comply with the settlement of that old lawsuit.

Bummer. It was a very soul-satisfying story.

[TheSpottedOwl]

Oh, okay. Yes it is too bad that it had to be pulled. Very soul satisfying indeed.

[bjs1779]

It occurs to me that Jim Jones was better than these people. Jones was as sick as a human can get but he was still man enough to drink his own grape Kool-Aid.

I am pretty sure he shot himself, if that makes any difference.

[Dante3]

I wonder if Jay Wolfson is the brother of Lester Wolfson who headed a branch university and got into more than his share of questionable actions.

[bjs1779]

That is the basis for my belief that she would have wanted to discontinue life support,

Do you think Terri had the right to try to swallow her own food and water if she chose to do so? Yes or no.

[quentin]

ME: Of course, in her state, she was unable to experience desires of any kind save the most primitive, brainstem sort.

YOU: Of course, that is just your opinion and I presume the SPT's formed that opinion for you. Correct?

Hello again, everyone; I'm back from my appointment, and will try to continue our discussion for as long as I can. 8)

OK; no, it wasn't the SPT that formed the basis for my assertion above. The reports on Mrs. Schiavo's CT scans, the GAL report, later the autopsy report--I don't remember what all now, but all the medical evidence showing that virtually the only part of her brain that remained functional was the brainstem--all of this made plain the fact that the poor woman had no cognitive abilities left.

Also, as long as you read all of the court records too, why didn't Michael have to file his guardianship reports? That should get us started.

I read all the court documents I could get hold of. I don't know if that was everything or not. I don't remember anything about guardianship reports in the material I did read, so I'm afraid I am unable to answer your question. But thanks for taking the time to post!

[quentin]

I am aware that many disabled folks do not have the same views that I do. They have a right, certainly, to their own opinions. I was merely making the point that many of us do indeed require that no one else shall interfere with our end-of-life choices.

I have thought a great deal about this matter, for the palpable fear of those to whom you refer affects me deeply. I have come to the conclusion that these poor folks do not trust the people in their lives who are closest to them, and so have no confidence that anyone would truly act with their best interests at heart. I find that unutterably sad.

For myself, it is not my closest loved ones whom I distrust, it is strangers, Congress, the president--in short, any outsider, no matter how well-meaning, who would intrude into the private decisions being made by myself and my family.

I speak only for myself. I have tried to offer my point of view civilly, and have posted my opinions and observations of life in the hopes of having a dialogue with others who have thought a lot about this issue which is so important to me.

Thanks for your thoughts.

[quentin]

Do you think Terri had the right to try to swallow her own food and water if she chose to do so? Yes or no.

This is something of a strawman argument, don't you think? Since Mrs. Schiavo could not safely swallow enough food/water to sustain her, and lacked the cognitive ability required to "[choose] to do so", your question is, at best, hypothetical. But if she had been undoubtedly capable of a) volition; and b) safe oral nutrition and hydration, (that capability being determined by reputable medical personnel), then certainly she would have had a "right" to eat and drink orally. I don't believe anyone would say otherwise.

[candeee]

On the contrary, Terri was put on a feeding tube for the convenience of the nurses.

[RGSpincich]

There is a huge difference between this story and Schiavo. But you all know that.

Yep. They didn't have to learn how to move a balloon to follow someone's eyes. Among other things.

[bjs1779]

Since Mrs. Schiavo could not safely swallow enough food/water to sustain her, and lacked the cognitive ability required to "[choose] to do so", your question is, at best, hypothetical. But if she had been undoubtedly capable of a) volition; and b) safe oral nutrition and hydration, (that capability being determined by reputable medical personnel),

Isn't that sweet that they were concerned about her wellbeing? By 'reputable', you mean the three for hire death doctors, correct? And while we're at it, we'll just ignore the sworn affidavits from medical personnel who spoon fed her in various nursing homes, too. Happy now?

[RGSpincich]

And while we're at it, we'll just ignore the sworn affidavits from medical personnel who spoon fed her in various nursing homes, too. Happy now?

You mean secretly spoon fed her and secretly gave her aspiration pneumonia. It was in the autopsy. Terri was not able to safely swallow.

[DadsGirl]

I do have some experience where a man always said that he wouldn't want to live in certain ways and would not like to continue life under certain circumstances. Then, when SOME of those circumstances appeared to be imminent, he was asked if he would like to continue life and try to be rehabilitated or discontinue life support. He chose to live. That is just one reason that I believe it is impossible to say what you will want until you are actually faced with the moment of choosing your life or your death. It all sounds grand and noble, but the reality can be something else altogether.

I would just warn you, quentin, to be sure of what you put on paper, because it can be used against you by the most unlikely people.

[bjs1779]

You mean secretly spoon fed her and secretly gave her aspiration pneumonia.

I only remember her having pneumoia once, in that crummy hospice where the staff let it develop over time and resisted any medical help for her. We know the nursing staff did not try to fed Terri there, and the time-frame is well after the fact of Judge Greers "I don’t want anyone trying to feed that GIRL" 2001 ruling.

Pneumoia

[8mmMauser]

For myself, it is not my closest loved ones whom I distrust, it is strangers, Congress, the president--in short, any outsider, no matter how well-meaning, who would intrude into the private decisions being made by myself and my family.

You are absolutely right, quentin! I am glad you brought this up. That is what happened to poor Terri and her truly loving family until her philandering husband and some strangers, outsiders, with the support of Government, a judge, no less, interferred powerfully and fatally with her desire to live, and sought for her death, only death.

You seem to have only read the Kool Aid side of the story and do not seem aware of the huge volume of facts and evidence that contradict that perspective. I commend to you the book I referenced earlier on this thread, the one by Diana Lynne, and the one by Registered Nurse, Cheryl Ford, "Our Fight 4 Terri" as starters and a source to get you up to speed on what really went down with the Pinellas Park killing. They are chock full of truths, evidence, facts, things that conservatives can digest better than Mantra-flavored Kool Aid.

An immense pile of data is available to truly inform, in contrast to the few tired mantras repeated over and over and supported by the left, the media, the democrats, trolls. (Did I miss anyone?)

[quentin]

That is just one reason that I believe it is impossible to say what you will want until you are actually faced with the moment of choosing your life or your death. It all sounds grand and noble, but the reality can be something else altogether.

I have been at the place of choosing life or death. I tried to choose release (death), but other people had other ideas, and so I still live. For the moment, I have made my peace with that. But I have taken steps to ensure that the next time I am at that crossroads, I am allowed to take the path of my own choosing.

In my opinion, there is nothing either grand or noble about the choices one makes at such a time. You simply do the best you can with what you've got.

Thanks for your thoughts.

[jackibutterfly]

Everyone & Quentin & Hildy - I came in late again - have to go back and read the posts on Haleigh; meanwhile, regarding Terri, all you have to do is just watch ONE (1) video of Terri to realize how alive she was. Just click on the link, scroll down to post #174, click on that link and watch:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1381701/posts?page=181

THEN, tell me she was PVS - I DARE YOU. Especially you, Hildy! You've said you've seen this video, BUT, I don't believe you've seen this one - you couldn't and still believe "she had no soul", as you love to say. Someone who was as alive and alert as Terri was. I'm still so sickened as to what they did to her - I'll NEVER get over it. I'm praying they won't be able to get their clutches on Haleigh.

[bjs1779]

But I have taken steps to ensure that the next time I am at that crossroads, I am allowed to take the path of my own choosing.

Why do let people control you now? I am confused on that. Why don't you just stop eating and drinking. It is a beautiful thing you know, after all, Felos told you so.

[8mmMauser]

In my opinion, there is nothing either grand or noble about the choices one makes at such a time. You simply do the best you can with what you've got.

Well, you can choose life or you can choose death. I am a Christian, myself, and opt for life. And we have been around death decisions like you have, with our eyes open.

You haven't yet responded to my earlier post about all the resources you can use to catch up on what really happened. I realize it is a lot to go through, but it will help you to understand how Terri was alive, healthy, and reasonably happy considering the horrible environment forced upon her by the outsiders, and how she resisted and fought back, surviving thirteen days without a drop, not even the tiniest drop of water. Too bad she was not given a choice.

If she were given the choice you seek, she would be alive today.