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Fire And Ice: Mars Images Reveal Recent Volcanic And Glacial Activity (climate change)
ScienceDaily.com ^ | 2005-03-24 | NA

Posted on 01/22/2006 1:37:59 PM PST by neverdem

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To: neverdem
I could not care less about any manned missions to Mars.

I want to know when we will have a robotic rover exploring this specific region of Mars!

How many robotic rovers could we have on this planet, for the cost of a single manned mission? Which would provide the most information?

21 posted on 01/22/2006 8:59:28 PM PST by Hunble (a)
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To: neverdem; FairOpinion; sourcery; Swordmaker
"Mars is very dynamic," said Head, lead author of one of the Nature reports. "We see that the climate change and geological forces that drive evolution on Earth are happening there."
The only dynamism on Mars is brought about by impacts. Mars hasn't much of an atmosphere, and hasn't ever had much of one, as the size and density of the planet hasn't changed.
The shape and flow of this deposit near a Martian mountain almost 4 km. tall suggests ice-rich glacial movement.
The shape and flow of that deposit shows the result of a temporary microclimate brought on by an impact from space. This is the case all over Mars -- traces of water flow from nowhere to nowhere, caused by the energy of the impacts, which produce a temporary dense local atmosphere making liquid water possible, briefly.
22 posted on 01/22/2006 9:01:12 PM PST by SunkenCiv (In the long run, there is only the short run.)
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To: Hunble

The robotic missions would provide the most info, because none of the payload would be fuel for the return trip, food, water, medicine, bandaids...

Also, the robots can stay on the surface for years.


23 posted on 01/22/2006 9:05:13 PM PST by SunkenCiv (In the long run, there is only the short run.)
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To: SunkenCiv
The shape and flow of that deposit shows the result of a temporary microclimate brought on by an impact from space. This is the case all over Mars -- traces of water flow from nowhere to nowhere, caused by the energy of the impacts, which produce a temporary dense local atmosphere making liquid water possible, briefly.

That is an interesting "Aristotle type" of theory, but until we can perform actual experiments on Mars to simulate those conditions, it will remain only an educated guess.

Thought experiments are interesting, but unless they are supported by physical facts, they are only fiction.

24 posted on 01/22/2006 9:08:10 PM PST by Hunble (a)
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To: Hunble

It is supported by physical facts. In fact, it is the only explanation which fits all the physical facts. The other models have to *assume* that Mars once supported a much denser atmosphere in order to have had liquid water flowing on the surface, even though there is no evidence for it, and no explanation for how it could have been that way, or what happened to change the conditions.


25 posted on 01/22/2006 9:16:55 PM PST by SunkenCiv (In the long run, there is only the short run.)
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To: SunkenCiv
My dream is to have over 1,000 robots exploring the surface of Mars.

Individual people could rent a robot for a specific amount of time. These robots would be controled over the internet and this would allow people to perform their own explorations.

Discoveries by individual citizens would be considered their intellectual property and royalties would be awarded to them.

26 posted on 01/22/2006 9:21:25 PM PST by Hunble (a)
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To: SunkenCiv
In fact, it is the only explanation which fits all the physical facts.

While I may agree with you on this theory, it is just that. Only a theory.

Until we can perform actual experiments on the surface of Mars, it will be impossible to know the difference between computer models and reality.

The current "Global Warming" crap has taught me to experiment with the actual physical environment and learn about factual reality. Sadly, today's computer models have become as abstract as Aristotle's thought experiments.

27 posted on 01/22/2006 9:31:12 PM PST by Hunble (a)
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To: Hunble

What computer model? Am I a computer?


28 posted on 01/22/2006 9:40:29 PM PST by SunkenCiv (In the long run, there is only the short run.)
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To: SunkenCiv
the energy of the impacts, which produce a temporary dense local atmosphere making liquid water possible, briefly.

What factual evidence obtained from the surface of Mars, supports this theory?

What meteor impact has been observed on the surface of Mars and recorded with scientific instruments?

What meteor impact has liquified water on the surface of Mars and was also observed with scientific instruments?

What scientific instrument on the surface of Mars has recorded an atmospheric pressure change large enough to produce liquified water?

29 posted on 01/22/2006 10:02:56 PM PST by Hunble (a)
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To: MineralMan; Elsie
//And why are you putting quotation marks around the word scientist?//

Well that would be because scientist are not for the most part. It would be because scientist have become the cultist.

They have a piece of paper that shows they drank the koolaid. A political thing it is sometimes. The universities pump them out by the thousands now.., a nasty virus the big U's have become.

Wolf
30 posted on 01/22/2006 10:52:25 PM PST by RunningWolf (Vet US Army Air Cav 1975)
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To: SunkenCiv; taxesareforever
The only dynamism on Mars is brought about by impacts. Mars hasn't much of an atmosphere, and hasn't ever had much of one, as the size and density of the planet hasn't changed.

Everyone has their pet projects and if we aren't seeing the one we are seeing the other. To me are both make for worthless print.

Global Warming on Mars?

31 posted on 01/22/2006 11:58:32 PM PST by neverdem (May you be in heaven a half hour before the devil knows that you're dead.)
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To: neverdem

Simply amazing the dated detail they come up with from a few pics.


32 posted on 01/23/2006 12:07:41 AM PST by Dustbunny
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To: MineralMan

Didn't you see all of the BELIEVE highlighted?

'Scientists' are supposed to KNOW things; not BELIEVE them!


33 posted on 01/23/2006 5:39:47 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: sig229

This year it's 'warming' in the USoA area and 'cooling' in Europe!


34 posted on 01/23/2006 5:40:43 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: neverdem

If there was enough water to cover the planet with *glaciers* that left evidence that they existed, where'd all the water go? Finding *evidence* for what amounts to a large puddle doesn't count. And besides, you really need an atmosphere to have climate. Mars does not have the same conditions on it now that scientists speculate existed on Earth when that mysterious event called biogenesis occurred. It sounds like they are really grasping at straws here hoping that, just maybe, they can find some *evidence* that would support their theories, especially evolution.


35 posted on 01/23/2006 6:32:47 AM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Hunble

"How many robotic rovers could we have on this planet, for the cost of a single manned mission?"

Several, undoubtedly.

"Which would provide the most information?"

The manned missions.


36 posted on 01/23/2006 7:11:50 AM PST by Frank_Discussion (May the wings of Liberty never lose a feather!)
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To: neverdem

Excellent! We continue to get some outstanding science from Mars...


37 posted on 01/23/2006 7:17:52 AM PST by Bean Counter ("That which does not kill us, makes us stronger.")
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To: neverdem
James Head, professor of geological sciences at Brown University

We have worked together at JPL.

38 posted on 01/23/2006 7:45:06 AM PST by RadioAstronomer (Senior member of Darwin Central)
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To: RadioAstronomer
“We see that the climate change and geological forces that drive evolution on Earth are happening there.”

Must be those SUVs we have up there.

39 posted on 01/23/2006 8:39:38 AM PST by FOG724 (Governor Spendanator)
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To: Bean Counter

The report is full of: *estimated*, *glacial data suggests*, *team also concludes*, *scientists speculated*, *offers evidence*, *In a poll taken at a European Space Agency conference last month, 75 percent of scientists believe*, *could be related to life*.

Sounds more like *outstanding speculations about Mars*. What repeatable, falsifiable experiments have been run on Mars? All they're doing is looking at pictures, oh, er, excuse me, "analyzing images".


40 posted on 01/23/2006 9:20:40 AM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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