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Pataki Wants Drivers to Fill Up With Ethanol or Biodiesel
NY Times ^ | January 7, 2006 | DANNY HAKIM

Posted on 01/07/2006 7:38:04 PM PST by neverdem

ALBANY, Jan. 6 - Some 200,000 New Yorkers own vehicles that can run on corn-based ethanol instead of gasoline. But many have no idea that their Ford Explorers, Chevy Impalas or Nissan Titans can use this type of fuel, which some view as a way to liberate Americans from Middle Eastern oil.

In any case, the closest station carrying ethanol is in Ottawa, as the Northeast is the one region of the United States that uniformly does not offer ethanol to the public.

But Gov. George E. Pataki wants to change that and make ethanol and biodiesel, two controversial alternative fuels, available in the 27 service areas on the New York State Thruway and in 100 more stations throughout the state as early as this year, in a first small step toward reducing the state's petroleum consumption. The governor is also proposing incentives to bring refineries that produce ethanol into the state.

Costs and further details of the plan, which Mr. Pataki first sketched out in his State of the State address on Wednesday, will not be disclosed until he makes his budget proposal later this month. If the plan is approved by the Legislature, it will give New Yorkers one of the nation's most diverse ranges of fuel choices. Only Minnesota offers an ethanol-rich blend known as E85 at more than 100 stations. Likewise, biodiesel is offered at only a few hundred of the nation's roughly 180,000 stations.

Both fuels can be made from a variety of crops, trees and plant material, and even used grease from fast-food outlets in the case of biodiesel. Ethanol, or grain alcohol, is already mixed with gasoline sold in the New York metropolitan area, but in amounts of...

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: District of Columbia; US: Iowa; US: New York
KEYWORDS: automobiles; biodiesel; energy; ethanol; gasoline; georgeepataki; oil; pataki; petroleum
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To: Paleo Conservative

Petroleum production and refining use energy as well.

But you bring up an interesting point. How many BTUs of energy are needed to produce one BTU of Ethanol vs. one BTU of gasoline or diesel?

I know fermentation itself releases energy- that's why barns full of too-wet hay catch fire.

With modern technology, how much of the heat from the evaporation process can be recaptured?


21 posted on 01/07/2006 8:15:47 PM PST by Ostlandr ("Fear leads to anger; anger leads to hate; hate leads to suffering." - Master Yoda)
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To: ClaireSolt
...adds real urgency to the drive for alternatives

Have you looked into WVO? I just bought an old diesel VW Pickup. Diesels will run on almost any type of oil (peanut, soy, kerosene, waste vegetable oil, etc.). Stop by your local Chinese food restaurant and fill up for free. Some filtering required to get the fortune cookie crumbs out first, of course.

22 posted on 01/07/2006 8:18:41 PM PST by 69ConvertibleFirebird (Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.)
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To: 69ConvertibleFirebird

I can field this.

E85 (85% Ethanol/15% petroleum gasoline) can damage the fuel systems of engines not engineered for this fuel. The alcohol will damage rubber/plastic components.

E85 capable vehicles have fuel systems with seals, gaskets, etc. rated for alcohol.


23 posted on 01/07/2006 8:19:34 PM PST by Ostlandr ("Fear leads to anger; anger leads to hate; hate leads to suffering." - Master Yoda)
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To: ClaireSolt

Digging up tanks in response to very expensive EPA mandates.
Probably installing double walled tanks with leak detection.

Expensive for the station owners (and passed on to consumers) but I don't miss that rainbow sheen on my drinking water.


24 posted on 01/07/2006 8:22:30 PM PST by Ostlandr ("Fear leads to anger; anger leads to hate; hate leads to suffering." - Master Yoda)
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To: 69ConvertibleFirebird
69ConvertibleFirebird wrote: (E85 ethanol/gas mix can seriously damage your engine.) Please post your reference showing this. In college my roommate used to tell me that electric razors would tear your face off. Obviously he didn't have a reference for that claim.

Here: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9340969/

25 posted on 01/07/2006 8:23:06 PM PST by quidnunc (Omnis Gaul delenda est)
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To: Ostlandr
Yeah, a rubber fuel line degrading is "pretty serious" engine damage.

I believe that all manufacturers now design their vehicles to run on the new fuels. I know that bio-diesel is OK in all new diesels.

26 posted on 01/07/2006 8:23:58 PM PST by 69ConvertibleFirebird (Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.)
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To: ol painless
"Pataki Wants Drivers to Fill Up With Ethanol"

He should be pleased with Teddy!

No, Teddy is pleased with him.

When was the last time Teddy agreed with a Republican, anyway?

27 posted on 01/07/2006 8:25:14 PM PST by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: quidnunc

OK, now post a reference not that isn't typical MSM "some experts say," and "we've heard once of," b.s. Yes, OLD cars may have problems in a few minor areas (fuel lines, etc.) but no "serious" engine damage.


28 posted on 01/07/2006 8:30:06 PM PST by 69ConvertibleFirebird (Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.)
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To: neverdem

I would like for Pataki to immediately retire to Cuba, and they want ice-water in hell, however..


29 posted on 01/07/2006 8:30:50 PM PST by DoNotDivide (Were the American Revolutionaries rebelling against Constituted Authority and thereby God? I say no.)
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To: 69ConvertibleFirebird
69ConvertibleFirebird wrote: OK, now post a reference not that isn't typical MSM "some experts say," and "we've heard once of," b.s. Yes, OLD cars may have problems in a few minor areas (fuel lines, etc.) but no "serious" engine damage.

I don't have to furnish you with anything.

I made a true observation which you are free to accept or reject, and I provided a link.

If you want to risk a blown engine by using E85 that's your business and none of my concern.

30 posted on 01/07/2006 8:34:02 PM PST by quidnunc (Omnis Gaul delenda est)
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To: 69ConvertibleFirebird

No, but I read about it. Being retired, I drive so little that it is not a personal issue, just one I have been interested in for a long time. Have you heard about the turkey oil coming from processing plant in MO ? That's a good one. If the EPA stays out of it, Yankee ingenuity will triumph.


31 posted on 01/07/2006 9:13:52 PM PST by ClaireSolt (.)
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To: Paleo Conservative

Well, one could run a still on solar power - it does not take that much, just mirrors. The Brazilians have found ethanol marginally economical - not from grain, though, but from biomass, IIRC.


32 posted on 01/07/2006 9:20:09 PM PST by GSlob
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To: 69ConvertibleFirebird

VW will only warranty up to B5.


33 posted on 01/07/2006 9:21:46 PM PST by VeniVidiVici (What? Me worry?)
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To: GSlob

Ok so set up a solar power farm in Manhattan.


34 posted on 01/07/2006 9:24:35 PM PST by Paleo Conservative (Happy New Year!)
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To: neverdem

I knew a bunch of drivers who used to fill up with ethanol--but someone got MADD....(8^D)


35 posted on 01/07/2006 9:24:40 PM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly.)
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To: Coleus; cyborg; Clemenza; Cacique; NYCVirago; The Mayor; Darksheare; hellinahandcart; Chode; ...
How ambitious Pataki is in his last year! FReepmail me if you want on or off my New York ping list.

Stop Cloning and Embryo Research in NEW YORK STATE (e-mail)

36 posted on 01/07/2006 9:25:15 PM PST by neverdem (May you be in heaven a half hour before the devil knows that you're dead.)
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To: neverdem

That RINO Pataki can KMA!


37 posted on 01/07/2006 9:41:34 PM PST by NYTexan (Where is MY Global Warming???)
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To: Paleo Conservative

Why Manhattan? Arizona, or maybe Death Valley would be proper locations for solar-powered stills. I've seen a solar powered kitchen range: aluminum mirror about 6 feet in diameter, with three metal rods forming a sort of a tripod - and on that tripod a kettle was hung. On a regular 90 F day the water in that teakettle was brought to boiling surprizingly fast, something like 20 minutes, IIRC.


38 posted on 01/07/2006 9:50:29 PM PST by GSlob
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To: GSlob

surprizingly=surprisingly. Adjacent key typo.


39 posted on 01/07/2006 9:54:21 PM PST by GSlob
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To: neverdem
I already fill myself up every night with ethanol
40 posted on 01/07/2006 11:15:47 PM PST by Flavius (Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum)
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