Posted on 11/06/2005 5:07:47 AM PST by Dane
Thousand cars torched in latest French riots Sun Nov 6, 2005 12:17 PM GMT
By Elisabeth Pineau
PARIS (Reuters) - Gangs of youths torched 1,300 vehicles overnight in the 10th consecutive night of violence in Paris's poor suburbs and major French towns, despite the deployment of thousands of extra police.
Cars were burnt out in the historic centre of Paris for the first time on Saturday night. In the normally quiet Normandy town of Evreux, a shopping mall, 50 vehicles, a post office and two schools went up in flames.
Authorities have so far found no way beyond appeals and more police to address a problem with complex social, economic and racial causes.
Evreux mayor Jean-Louis Debre, a confidant of President Jacques Chirac and speaker of the lower house of parliament, told France Info radio:
"To those responsible for the violence, I want to say: Be serious ... If you want to live in a fairer, more fraternal society, this is not how to go about it."
The deaths 10 days ago of two youths apparently fleeing police ignited pent up frustrations among young men, many of them Muslims of North and black African origin, at racism, unemployment, their marginal place in French society and their treatment by the police.
"Many youths have never seen their parents work and couldn't hold down a job if they got one," said Claude Chevallier, manager of a burned-out carpet depot in the rundown Paris suburb of Aulnay-sous-Bois.
But authorities now say the rolling nightly riots are being organised via the Internet and mobile phones, and have pointed the finger at drug traffickers and Islamist militants.
Overnight, 1,295 vehicles were torched across France, the highest total so far, police said. An extra 2,300 officers have been drafted in.
Seven police helicopters buzzed over the Paris region through the night, filming disturbances and directing mobile squads to incidents. Overnight, police made 349 arrests.
The number of incidents in the Paris region was similar to the night before, but in the provinces it was up sharply.
TARNISHED IMAGE
The violence has tarnished France's image abroad, forcing Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin to cancel a trip to Canada, while Russia and the United States have warned their citizens to avoid Paris's troubled suburbs.
Villepin has combined a call for an end to the riots with dialogue with community leaders, youngsters and local officials, and has promised an action plan for 750 tough neighbourhoods.
"I'll make proposals as early as this week," the weekly Journal du Dimanche quoted him as saying.
But it remained unclear what could stop the violence, though some opposition parties have suggested a symbolic measure -- the resignation of Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy.
Accused of stoking passions by calling troublemakers "scum", Sarkozy has ignored calls to quit. A survey published on Sunday indicated his public image was holding up, even if many disapproved of his strong language.
Villepin also has ambitions to be the right wing's presidential candidate in 2007 and has tried to position himself as a much more consensual figure than Sarkozy; the effect on the crisis on his ratings is still unclear.
With no end in sight to the nights of wailing sirens, acrid smoke, stone-throwing and destruction, residents from all ethnic backgrounds are tiring of the unrest.
"My kids can't sleep at night," said a mother named Samia in Aulnay-sous-Bois. "They hear explosions, they see fires and they think they're in a war. When the slightest thing happens, they get anxious and say 'Mama, what's going on?'"
Your argument is quite sensible except that Islam doesn't expect to take over by military means. They (muslims) are waging a war of religious and cultural attrition. They also wage war on many fronts at once. .......
The post that you are answering to was a reply to an ongoing discussion with fishtalk and, taken by itself, is somewhat out of context.
My analysis of the current situation is stated in Post 225
Fishtalk was worried that the current violence will lead to the "takeover" right now. Right now, in the year 2005 round of the conflict, that is not a realistic outcome.
As I pointed out in Post 225, the current violence will get much worse before it gets better with a cycle of French appeasement and Muslim violence that will end in a pretty nasty fashion.
In the end, I see this as a valuable lesson for France that may derail the current path that you describe. France has not learned from the errors of others and it now learning from its own errors.
****
"I have recorded these events in the hope that the reader may profit from them, for there are two ways by which all men may reform themselves, either by learning from their own errors or from those of others; the former makes a more striking demonstration, the latter a less painful one."......... Polybius (200-118 B.C.), Universal History, Book I, Chapter 35
****
The Muslims may have played their hand to soon and, in giving the French "a more striking demonstration", may awaken the ancient European demons that drove them out of Western Europe once before.
Do you think if Chirac asked for our help in 20 days, we would give it?
Ok...here is my latest French joke;
What do you call Parisians now?
French Fries!!!
(My dog is rolling around with paws kicking up in the air laughing...she's a conservative Libertarian.)
Bravo Allen, your reply #292 is a keeper, and a brilliant and concise analysis of the current liberal mindset.
The persistent hit-and-run arson attacks show signs of strategy and coordination, said Yves Bot, the chief prosecutor in Paris.
"We see a form of action that is organized," Bot told Europe 1 radio Saturday. "It responds to a strategy…. It's done by mobile units of youths — or older guys because they are masked — who arrive on scooters, throw a burning bottle at a vehicle and leave.
"There are organized gangs, that's irrefutable," he added, "because it's done in a way that gives every sign of coordination. In fact, one can read blogs on certain websites inciting other cities to join the movement of the Parisian region."
But debate continued among authorities about the extent of organization.
A regional police intelligence chief here said small-time gangsters who have long dominated the nation's housing projects were instigating the troubles to assert control over drug-dealing turf.
Police also have seen indications in recent days that Islamic militants, another force in slums with big Muslim populations, have played a role in inciting vandals, he said, but to a lesser extent and "not on the front lines."
At the same time, other groups of Islamic fundamentalists have been active in trying to restore peace.
Overall, the intelligence chief expressed doubt that there was much coordination among the marauding gangs in different towns or regions.
"In this era of Internet, text-messages, cellphones and television, everybody knows what's going on," said the chief, who asked to remain anonymous for security reasons. "The coordination comes mainly from the information revolution. The methods are similar because their social class is similar…. I don't justify it at all, but there is an element of social demand here, of social distress. The message is: Our life is [expletive], so we are going to destroy everything."
The trigger for the riots was an incident in the poor suburb of Clichy-sous-Bois in which two teenagers, one wanted by police, hid from officers in a power substation and were accidentally electrocuted. Prosecutors have determined that police were not chasing the youths.
The riots have escalated for several reasons. Resentment of Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy's tough-talking anti-crime campaign has been cited as a cause by some rioters and community leaders. A few politicians, mainly on the far left, have called for his resignation, but Sarkozy remains popular with a majority of voters, according to new polls.
Another key factor: During the first week of the unrest, teenagers were home from school for a mid-fall semester vacation. Group violence in restive housing projects, marked by the torching of cars, often erupts during holiday periods in France and often results from minor clashes with police that usually do not involve injuries.
One mayor in the riot zone blamed criminal gangs and militants for the violence.
"The first three days, the rioters were not manipulated," said Mayor Eric Raoult, a former minister of housing. "But now they are. These groups don't want to see the police. They don't want a return of authority in the neighborhoods that would bother their drug traffic or their rackets. The guys we saw shouting 'Allah is Great' while burning cars … show that there may also be, among some, a religious subtext."
"But the Herald had lots to say about the usual celebrity gossip and whatnot" - What would Inside Track be without yet another Tom Brady item.
It's a quagmire ~ when will the french pull out and surrender to the insurgents?
What is their exit strategy?
A fair fraternal society, indeed!
Newsweak says the riots are Sarkozy's fault
Do you think if Chirac asked for our help in 20 days, we would give it?I don't know. Good question. I guess it would depend a lot on what the help was. I mean if it was satellite photos or something like that... They certainly wouldn't ask for troops. They've got plenty of troops. They just don't have the will to use them. Maybe that's what they might ask for. Someone with the will to fight, to direct their troops.
The question is, if they ask if they can borrow Rumsfeld for a month, should we be prepared to lend him out?
Only the senior citizens remember the Nazi occupation. They must be freaking big time right now.Because they know that the count of days and the count of cars is ridiculous. This isn't "how many cars have been burned" or "how many days this has gone on". This is the start of something big. The launching of a major operation. I personally believe it is a war of recruitment, designed to show the young savages that here is something they can do with their worthless idle lives. And that they can win.
Beyond that, the medium-term goal is to establish a state-within-a-state, where no French government is allowed. In this, I think, they will succeed.
....Will the Eiffel tower itself start burning soon? Suppose we do nothing, what will happen?.....
Marie Antoinette said it well in 1792 or so..."If they have no bread, then let them eat cake."
It will sort itsself out. So far there are no deaths reported.
But of course, what else would the Grey Poupon mustard lovers at newsweak spout.
"Newsweak says the riots are Sarkozy's fault
"
so he is their Bush? blame the guy putting down the EVILDOERS" Oh wait he's half jewish too ,what a daily double for the left!!!
We should say to Chirac: No, we don't want to get involved and have the Muslim nations mad at us. America will not participate in French aggression against Muslims.
That sound good? That's what the French said to us and it worked well. No Muslims are mad at them.
I don't believe they didn't plan the peace too well, either!
maybe Nero Burning rom should be enamed French Burning Soft
Oh, you should see the commie stuff posted on Pravda, they are blaming it all on Sarkozy:
"The riots in France are a lamentable phenomenon which will gain the immigrant communities few friends and which will provide welcome fuel for those who sponsor rectrictive policies on immigration in Fortress Europa. They are also a direct consequence of the pin-headed, narrow-minded and Fascist policies of French Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy."
wait wait wait... there's more:
"Going into immigrant estates and calling people "scum", which is what certain members of Sarkozy's French police have been doing, is not a sensible policy of integration. It is an abrasive act of intolerance which is bound to constitute the action which sparks a reaction."
wait, once last thing...
"(Aren't the French already doing that?) A sensible integration policy would require a special attention from the education system to ensure that the children of immigrants get the same start in life as their peers from non-immigrant families. Given equal opportunities, people evolve equally."
The Russians are ones to talk with their Chechen problem. Where's the integration in the former Soviet Union?
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.