Posted on 10/29/2005 10:13:52 AM PDT by Travis McGee
Thoughts On Urban Survival (Post-Collapse Life in Argentina)
My brother visited Argentina a few weeks ago. He’s been living in Spain for a few years now. Within the first week, he go sick, some kind of strong flu, even though climate isn’t that cold and he took care of himself. Without a doubt he got sick because there are lots of new viruses in my country that can’t be found in 1st world countries. The misery and famine lead us to a situation where, even though you have food, shelter and health care, most of others don’t, and therefore they get sick and spread the diseases all over the region.
What got me started on this post is the fact that I actually saw this coming, and posted on the subject here at Frugal’s, months before the new viruses spread over the country and the news started talking about this new, health emergency, which proves that talking, thinking and sharing ideas with like minded people (you guys), does help to see things coming and prepare for them with enough time. So I started thinking about several issues, what I learned (either the hard way or thanks to this forum) after all these years of living in a collapsed country that is trying to get out an economical disaster and everything that comes along with it. Though my English is limited, I hope I’m able to transmit the main ideas and concepts, giving you a better image of what you may have to deal with some day, if the economy collapses in your country. Here is what I have so far:
URBAN OR COUNTRY?
Someone once asked me how did those that live in the country fare. If they were better off than city dwellers. As always there are no simple answers. Wish I could say country good, city bad, but I can’t, because if I have to be completely honest, and I intend to be so, there are some issues that have to be analyzed, especially security. Of course that those that live in the country and have some land and animals were better prepared food-wise. No need to have several acres full of crops. A few fruit trees, some animals, such as chickens, cows and rabbits, and a small orchard was enough to be light years ahead of those in the cities. Chickens, eggs and rabbits would provide the proteins, a cow or two for milk and cheese, some vegetables and fruit plants covered the vegetable diet, and some eggs or a rabbit could be traded for flower to make bread and pasta or sugar and salt.
Of course that there are exceptions, for example, some provinces up north have desert climate, and it almost never rains. It is almost impossible to live of the land, and animals require food and water you have to buy. Those guys had it bad; no wonder the northern provinces suffer the most in my country. Those that live in cities, well they have to manage as they can. Since food prices went up about 200%-300%. People would cut expenses wherever they could so they could buy food. Some ate whatever they could; they hunted birds or ate street dogs and cats, others starved. When it comes to food, cities suck in a crisis. It is usually the lack of food or the impossibility to acquire it that starts the rioting and looting when TSHTF.
When it comes to security things get even more complicated. Forget about shooting those that mean you harm from 300 yards away with your MBR. Leave that notion to armchair commandos and 12 year old kids that pretend to be grown ups on the internet.
Some facts:
1) Those that want to harm you/steal from you don’t come with a pirate flag waving over their heads.
2) Neither do they start shooting at you 200 yards away.
3) They won’t come riding loud bikes or dressed with their orange, convict just escaped from prison jump suits, so that you can identify them the better. Nor do they all wear chains around their necks and leather jackets. If I had a dollar for each time a person that got robbed told me “They looked like NORMAL people, dressed better than we are”, honestly, I would have enough money for a nice gun. There are exceptions, but don’t expect them to dress like in the movies.
4) A man with a wife and two or three kids can’t set up a watch. I don’t care if you are SEAL, SWAT or John Freaking Rambo, no 6th sense is going to tell you that there is a guy pointing a gun at your back when you are trying to fix the water pump that just broke, or carrying a big heavy bag of dried beans you bought that morning.
The best alarm system anyone can have in a farm are dogs. But dogs can get killed and poisoned. A friend of mine had all four dogs poisoned on his farm one night, they all died. After all these years I learned that even though the person that lives out in the country is safer when it comes to small time robberies, that same person is more exposed to extremely violent home robberies. Criminals know that they are isolated and their feeling of invulnerability is boosted. When they assault a country home or farm, they will usually stay there for hours or days torturing the owners. I heard it all: women and children getting raped, people tied to the beds and tortured with electricity, beatings, burned with acetylene torches. Big cities aren’t much safer for the survivalist that decides to stay in the city. He will have to face express kidnappings, robberies, and pretty much risking getting shot for what’s in his pockets or even his clothes.
So, where to go? The concrete jungle is dangerous and so is living away from it all, on your own. The solution is to stay away from the cities but in groups, either by living in a small town-community or sub division, or if you have friends or family that think as you do, form your own small community. Some may think that having neighbors within “shouting” distance means loosing your privacy and freedom, but it’s a price that you have to pay if you want to have someone to help you if you ever need it. To those that believe that they will never need help from anyone because they will always have their rifle at hand, checking the horizon with their scope every five minutes and a first aid kit on their back packs at all times…. Grow up.
Travis McGee Note: This is the beginning of one of the most amazing essays I have read in my life, written by an architect in Argentina, who has lived through an economic and social collapse for the last five years. I consider it one of the most important things that you will read in this or any year. If you're a sheeple, don't bother. But if you see (as I do) storm clouds on America's horizon, do yourself a BIG favor and read it, and pass it to your friends, family, and loved ones.
Thoughts On Urban Survival (Post-Collapse Life in Argentina)
The thing to keep in mind is everyone's situation is different due to economic,fam size,tax bracket, region,skill and training, Perhaps if I feel motivated I will try and break it down and get feedback on:
Urban Warm Climate
Urban Cold Climate
Rural,ect
Travis Mcgee is in So Cal in a large city, VRWC is in Nebraska in a small town so we have very different threats to worry about for example.
So CA= the possibility of huge riots,earthquakes,flooding,
Nebraska=smaller riots, blizzard,tornado,nuke attack
but both areas require food,water,medical,and stealth which was one of the main points of this thread in my opinion. If you have power you need to keep it quiet, if you have food and meds you need to keep it quiet. The other major thing to get out of this is that you can't do it all by yourself. You need to figure out what the most likely SHTF events you will face and what you can do to:
A. Get the heck out of dodge
B. If staying form an alliance/tribe whatever you want to call it until life returns somewhat to normal
pingalingadingdong for later
I recommend reading survivalblog.com DAILY, even going back to August when it started, and reading it ALL, a little at a time. Jim Rawles is ahead of everybody on this subject, and has ALL of the links and resources.
This really is an excellent read. I'm going to email this article to a few friends.
I heard from a friend that chickens do pretty well roosting in 5 gallon buckets nailed up in trees with a little nesting material and a board wired across the front high enough to keep the eggs from rolling out. He also said they survive pretty well just on available insects.
The buckets keep them safe from predators as well, at least the four legged variety. Anyway, I think I'm going to buy a few chickens after reading this article. A good cheap self perpetuating food source, and really anyone with a bit of a yard could raise a few.
Another thing that would be good is a green house or just a room set up to grow some fresh veggies. You could grow a lot of food in the size of an average bedroom and year round with some grow lights. Course you need juice to run the lights, which presents a whole bunch of other (expensive) problems in the event of no electricity.
Anyway, lots of food for thought in this article. Good stuff to chew on. ;-)
Yep, he says the first things you gotta deal with are establishing a suppy of water and food.
If you ain't got them, the rest don't matter!
I was just thinking if there were a collapse of the economy or society, I would go to live with my parents in the country.
Unfortunately they filled in their old well a few years ago. Not really needed with a deep well pump, I guess they could dig it out again.
Can they get water when the elec. goes out? Is there a manual backup?
It was an easy way to have chickens and eggs tho. Basically just let them go except to feed them a little and let them eat insects for the rest of their feed.
I don't think so. Once when the power was out for a few days due to a hurricane, we had to go down to the creek to bathe. The creek water is clear and clean enough to bathe in but I would boil it before drinking.
That was one of my wife's reservations when I suggested we get a few chickens a while back (they're messy). She grew up on a farm with chickens and dairy cows.
My daughter would love them though. She loves all animals pretty much.
Anyway, I want to get a few chickens.
Mother bought a dozen from a neighbor and we put them in the fenced in area. The next day they were all gone. Those chickens could fly. For years later and probably still, we would occasionally see some of those chickens in the woods. They were wild but somehow survived.
GOOD article, hell EXCELENT article. Squantos shot me a copy earlier, very good.
Yeah, it was the first time I was ever motivated to put an essay on Word, to make it easier to send it around.
Bookmark
My job is in Houston. Small towns don't need people with my talents. The people who live in the small towns and commute have high dollar real estate and a much longer drive. This doesn't work. I also want to keep my daughter in her current school as that is where her scholarship for college is going to be. I am not going to screw her future for a "just in case" scenario.
And a lot of this stuff, no matter how much it costs today, it will look cheap compared to what it will cost after. And simple things like water storage don't cost much. Plastic drums for water don't cost much, neither to large sacks of rice and beans.
We have done the stuff that is affordable. During the last bit of hurricane stuff we were good for two weeks. Three if need be three weeks. A year? Ain't gonna happen. Many that think that they are prepared for a year are not. The roaches and weevils are going to survive. They are not stocking up either.
Keeping my job will be the most critical thing, not planting rice in my small back yard.
They "flew the coop". LOL
But, it sounds like you could have hunted the ones that survived in the wild anyway.
We will have to consult your counterpart, "yardbird" for confirmation of this info I guess. :-)
It might be 5 years between sightings but they definitely did survive at least for some time. Also I never saw a single one, always a small group. I am not even certain it was the same ones.
Ping for later.
i was fairly well stocked up for y2k. not sensing a big need to re-stock now. What do you guy's know that I don't? Why Mulder, are you thinking our economic collapse is inevitable?
Thanks for the info....at least I have a head start with the wall o'5 gallon grain buckets in the garage! :)
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