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LIVE THREAD - German polls closed: AP: SCHROEDER DEFEATED!
SABC NEWS ^ | September 18, 2005, 08:15

Posted on 09/18/2005 12:12:37 AM PDT by alessandrofiaschi

Voting began in Germany's closely fought election today with millions of undecided voters holding the key to a result that will have major implications for economic reform in Europe.

Angela Merkel, a Christian Democrat (CDU) chancellor, is expected to emerge as Germany's first woman chancellor, displacing Gerhard Schroeder who has led Germany for the past seven years at the head of a centre-left government of Social Democrats and Greens.

A provisional result is expected to be announced in the early hours of Monday morning. The final opinion polls published on Friday gave Merkel's centre-right coalition with the liberal Free Democrats (FDP) a slim lead in a race it once dominated.

High stakes For Germany and the rest of Europe, the stakes in the election are high. Some five million Germans are out of work, the country's pensions system is in crisis, its public finances are overstretched and the economy that once drove growth in Europe is now acting as a drag on the rest of the continent.

Analysts say that if Germany succeeds in pushing through reforms, they could be a model for change in the rest of Europe. Surveys show that most Germans believe the system needs changing but they are deeply uncertain about how far the changes should go and how the burden should be shared.

Schroeder's own "Agenda 2010" reforms to welfare and labour market rules have been the most ambitious attempt to overhaul the social security system in decades. They have been attacked by the conservatives and by some commentators as not going far enough. The reforms were bitterly resented by voters. - Reuters


TOPICS: Breaking News; Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Germany; Government; News/Current Events; Philosophy; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 2005election; agenda; agenda2010; america; angelamerkel; bush; cdu; cducsu; chancellor; change; christiandemocrat; conservatism; conservative; conservatives; economicreform; election; europe; fdp; flattax; generalelection; germanelection; germany; haha; livethread; merkel; poll; polls; prousa; rats; schroeder; spd; usa; vote
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To: Michael81Dus

New estimate of overhang mandates says 9 for SPD 5 for CDU, so at least CDU will hang on as the largest party come what may in Dresden


261 posted on 09/18/2005 2:49:52 PM PDT by babble-on
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To: Michael81Dus

I'm sorry, Michael. From reading other threads over the past few weeks, I know how much you wanted this election. I wish things were different even if was just for your sake. Keep your spirits up. :0)


262 posted on 09/18/2005 2:50:22 PM PDT by asp1
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To: babble-on
...come what may in Dresden...

Now those are some ominous last words...

263 posted on 09/18/2005 2:52:09 PM PDT by Petronski (Cyborg is the greatest blessing I have ever known.)
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To: babble-on

Yeah, I heard that too. We´ll be the strongest party, but Merkel is damaged. Germany, where are you going??


264 posted on 09/18/2005 2:52:40 PM PDT by Michael81Dus (I know, men don´t cry. But I really would if I could thinking of the desastrous election in Germany)
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To: asp1

Tell you what? We´re going to vote early again within the next 2 years!!!


265 posted on 09/18/2005 2:53:17 PM PDT by Michael81Dus (I know, men don´t cry. But I really would if I could thinking of the desastrous election in Germany)
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To: BMCDA
Many thanks for the link!
266 posted on 09/18/2005 3:00:42 PM PDT by Heatseeker ("I sort of like liberals now. They’re kind of cute when they’re shivering and afraid." - Ann Coulter)
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To: Michael81Dus
Goodnight Michael, get some sleep, I can imagine what kind of exhausting day this must have been for you.
267 posted on 09/18/2005 3:02:17 PM PDT by Heatseeker ("I sort of like liberals now. They’re kind of cute when they’re shivering and afraid." - Ann Coulter)
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To: alessandrofiaschi

At 4:30 EST, the BBC on NPR was portraying it as a razor thin margin for Merkel. Indeed, Schroeder's party was saying it was a Victory for them! Nobody would be able to form a coalition to rule the country, so Schroeder thinks he can retain power. Clearly, the people didn't want to give up cozy govt. handouts, although they know economic reform is desperately needed.


268 posted on 09/18/2005 3:05:27 PM PDT by hershey
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To: Michael81Dus
Germany, where are you going??

To hell in a hand basket, it appears. What a messed up mess the German political system is, and you think the checks and balances of our separate executive and legislative branches "ain't too brilliant."

269 posted on 09/18/2005 3:05:32 PM PDT by Rider on the Rain
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To: Michael81Dus
Tell you what? We´re going to vote early again within the next 2 years!!!

Or rather within the next few months. What we have now is a real travesty.

270 posted on 09/18/2005 3:05:42 PM PDT by BMCDA (Whereof we cannot speak, thereof we must be silent. -- L. Wittgenstein)
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To: Michael81Dus

Germany, where are you going??
Michael, if Schroeder gets it again, there will be no more NATO and a common defense bond will be struck with Russia and France. Russia has you in their favorite position already, most energy will be supplied by them, so don't say anything wrong without considering the consequences.
Where have I seen that before?
Your future depends on this administration, fight!!!!!!!!!!!! Good luck.


271 posted on 09/18/2005 3:07:26 PM PDT by americanbychoice2
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To: William Creel

That's bad thinking. You know the leftist answer to economic problems, even if created by government: more government.

And in Europe, that impulse is even worse then it is here.


272 posted on 09/18/2005 3:09:47 PM PDT by zbigreddogz
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To: Rider on the Rain

Well, considering what we have now - for the first time since the founding of our Republic - a majority system would be better.


273 posted on 09/18/2005 3:10:07 PM PDT by Michael81Dus (I know, men don´t cry. But I really would if I could thinking of the desastrous election in Germany)
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To: americanbychoice2

Nah, Schröder is history, at least on that I was right (but it´s shocking to see that it was such a narrow lead for the CDU/CSU - we lost heavily in NRW, Bavaria and the East).


274 posted on 09/18/2005 3:11:15 PM PDT by Michael81Dus (I know, men don´t cry. But I really would if I could thinking of the desastrous election in Germany)
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To: Heatseeker

Thanks. I´m still here, because I want to know that we´re the strongest party. Three years ago, I went to bed with that idea - and when I woke up everything has changed.


275 posted on 09/18/2005 3:12:16 PM PDT by Michael81Dus (I know, men don´t cry. But I really would if I could thinking of the desastrous election in Germany)
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To: Michael81Dus

Keep up the fight, and good luck. You're gonna need it.


276 posted on 09/18/2005 3:12:21 PM PDT by Rider on the Rain
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To: Rider on the Rain

Yep. /head almost sinking


277 posted on 09/18/2005 3:12:49 PM PDT by Michael81Dus (I know, men don´t cry. But I really would if I could thinking of the desastrous election in Germany)
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To: BMCDA; All
I have also found what I _think_ is a realtime streaming video feed from the English service of Deutsche Welle:

Try here and click on the lower left corner of the "DW-TV" button on the right side of the screen.

278 posted on 09/18/2005 3:17:02 PM PDT by Heatseeker ("I sort of like liberals now. They’re kind of cute when they’re shivering and afraid." - Ann Coulter)
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To: Michael81Dus

Since 1998, I've lived in Germany for all but one year. In this time I have met a great deal of Germans from all over the country. Saying that, I can honestly tell you that I can count the number of Germans that I've met that are no hardcore leftists on one hand. I never really believed for a second all the talk about Germany being ready and willing for a change; I just didn't see it in the people. I guess 12% unemployment and a failing economy aren't enough. Anyway, I'm out of here and heading back to the States in a couple of months and looking forward to it now more than ever.

I'm sorry about this result. Don't give up though. Keep your head up.


279 posted on 09/18/2005 3:17:36 PM PDT by frankiep
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To: Michael81Dus

How soon can new elections be held?

I think what went wrong for you was that Germans still viewed Schroder very favorably.

If you can have new elections in 1 year, Merkel could go to the electorate like Koizumi did in Japan and say "Germany needs to be reformed but I cannot reform Germany in a Grand Coalition. Therefore I ask for Parliament to dissolve so that new elections can be held".

If there are new elections within one year, Merkel won't have to deal with Schroder's charisma and she will be running with the authority as Chancellor.

And the Left Party may dissolve within one year now that Lafontaine has screwed everything up for all the major parties.

If Linke did not merge together, Merkel would have a Black Yellow Coalition because the two parties making up linke would not have gotten over 5% neccasary to be represented in the Bundestag. Or the Left Party may simply lose popularity.


280 posted on 09/18/2005 3:18:16 PM PDT by GOPGuide
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