Posted on 09/08/2005 3:40:23 PM PDT by RDTF
Waters were receding across this flood-beaten city today as police officers began confiscating weapons, including legally registered firearms, from civilians in preparation for a mass forced evacuation of the residents still living here.
No civilians in New Orleans will be allowed to carry pistols, shotguns, or other firearms, said P. Edwin Compass, the superintendent of police. "Only law enforcement are allowed to have weapons," he said.
But that order apparently does not apply to the hundreds of security guards whom businesses and some wealthy individuals have hired to protect their property. The guards, who are civilians working for private security firms like Blackwater, are openly carrying M-16's and other assault rifles. Mr. Compass said he was aware of the private guards, but that the police had no plans to make them give up their weapons.
Nearly two weeks after the floods began, New Orleans has turned into an armed camp, patrolled by thousands of local, state, and federal law enforcement officers, as well as National Guard troops and active-duty soldiers. While armed looters roamed unchecked last week, the city is now calm. No arrests were made on Wednesday night or this morning, and police received only 10 calls for service, a police spokesman said.
The city's slow recovery is continuing on other fronts as well, local officials said at a press conference late this morning. Pumping stations are now operating across much of the city, and many taps and fire hydrants have water pressure. Also, tests have shown no evidence of cholera or other dangerous diseases in flooded areas, though health officials have said the waters contain levels of E. coli bacteria and lead 10 times higher than what is considered safe.
Efforts to recover corpses have also started, although only a handful of bodies have been recovered so far.
(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...
I also pointed out on that thread at the time that it appeared that the "order" was only for people not to walk the streets armed. If that was the case, I felt it did not hinder people from protecting their property and was understandable in the emergency.
You will also note that on that thread that I indicated that if the authorities were trying to confiscate law-abiding citizen's weapons in their homes, while forcing them out of those relatively undamaged homes, that that would be beyond the pale and intolerable.
I stand by all of that.
Now, it appears from this thread that some law-abiding citizens are being disarmed and displaced from their homes, when they are well provisioned and perfectly capable of defending their own property. This is nuts and cannot be tolerated.
If that was clear to you guys on the other thread...as I indicated to Annaz, then you were ahead of the game and are commended from my perspective.
I still think there is more information to come in on this and I pray such events are not part of a general order. If they are...there is the very real chance that there will be senseless bloodshed between those enforcing such an order and law-abiding citizens who want to protect their own property.
These idiot administrators should be deputizing these people and forming them into neighborhood watches so they (the LEOs) can move on to areas where they are really needed.
"If they are confiscating weapons from peaceful, legal citizens in their own homes...this is wrong and must not be tolerated. "
I agree completely. That said, such a move is predictable. The legality of it is clear. It is not legal. However, when did that stop any confiscation of weapons.
As I said earlier, I would have left New Orleans on the Friday before the hurricane made landfall, and I would have taken my firearms with me, along with other valuables. What is happening is completely predictable. I'm not interested in a firefight with the cops and NG guys.
Or New York, or Los Angeles, or Washington, DC, etc, etc.
Where you been?
The mayor and this action are the exact reason for the second amendment. I hope a few people exercise the activities necessary to maintain the free state.
Well there is NO gun registration in NO and the people's guns will never be returned. The lack of outrage on people being deprived of their rights tells me all I need to know of your political career.
They deserve more than an insult. I have to confess that they'd not get my home or my guns without a fight. This is blatently unconstitutional.
I am not interested in a firefight either...but would defend both my property and my rights. Sooner or later, if people do not do so...there will be no place you can run. Just my opinion.
New Orleans is using gun records to find and seize people's guns.
They showed on TV a woman in her house; the police broke in and told her she had to leave, and she had a gun and they wrestled her to the ground.
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
I would have been gone too. However, if I saw that my area was relatively unaffected, I would have left the wife and children in safety and returned on Monday or Tuesday after the storm to protect my life's savings (home, possession, etc) and I would have come armed.
I am not interested in a firefight either...but would defend both my property and my rights. Sooner or later, if people do not do so...there will be no place you can run. Just my opinion.
There are sections of the city that were never flooded, had little storm damage, and have running water and generators for power.
Imagine you are in your house, with food, water, power. Imagine though that the neighborhoods that surround yours are all without power and are under water.
Now imagine what you would do if the police came to YOUR house and took your guns and forced you to leave.
The government has every right to refuse to rescue people who violate a "mandatory evacuation". But they shouldn't be allowed to remove you from your house without a warrant for your arrest. That's a CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT.
I really wish someone at the Federal level would step in and say this is wrong but I won't hold my breath.
However...where I do live, with my property and life savings, I would certainly defend it if I could. And in this part of the country I would certainly not be alone. Organizing a whole neighborhood or small town here would not be difficult in such circumstances...and knowing the local sheriff and LEO's, they would in fact welcome the neighborhood watch.
The reality here is that hey would probably deputize the lot of us.
Some people need killin' and it ain't the home owners protecting their property. Sorry to be so blunt, but this would be my last straw, were it me in one of those houses.
This wouldn't work in a rural area. The mentality is different. The issue is that the LA gov't is taking advantage of the situation. I'd have no problem with arresting and taking stolen guns from the thugs-but I do have a problem with gun owners in their homes being forced to evacuate and have their guns taken. If someone wants to stay in that sewage bowl that's their problem.
The amateur looting seems to be over, now. The professional looting has begun with the order to confiscate lawful weapons. Once that process is completed, we'll see what they aim to loot next. But gutting the Constitution, naturally, begins at the Second Amendment.
They are storming the gate, our Bill of Rights, two at a time, aren't they? Second Amendment, Fourth Amendment.
Until the Supreme Court acts differently on the 2nd Amendment, gun permits will remain legal in many jurisdictions, including Western Carolina where I live.
You're claiming that State infringements ["gun permits"] will "remain legal" until the USSC acts 'incorporating' the 2nd Amendment, correct?
That's for pistols. Long guns are still free as a bird. It varies by jurisdiction.
Of course, gun ownership has nothing to do with the current legality of guns in any jurisdiction. D.C. forbids law-abiding citizens from owning guns.
And you agree that States & local governments can prohibit/regulate owning & bearing arms, correct?
Thus the current actions of New Orleans 'authorities' are, in your view, constitutionally legal?
This is where we need courts to protect the people from an overreaching executive.
THere is no evidence that people in their homes in parts of the city that were not flooded are in any danger of any disease.
And they certainly won't be SPREADING any disease if they are holed up in their houses.
AND NO MATTER WHAT, there can be no excuse for taking their guns out of their houses, even if they take the people. The government has no right to come into my house without a warrant and take ANYTHING out of it, that's both ME and MY POSESSIONS.
You usually make such good sense.
"The reality here is that hey would probably deputize the lot of us."
No doubt. Idaho is a very different place than New Orleans. And a similar situation won't arise there, I'm pretty sure. It's a matter of choosing one's living place, I suppose.
I live in St. Paul, Minnesota. One would be hard-pressed to organize neighbors here to defend their homes against law enforcement personnel. It would not happen, even though firearms ownership is very high in this state.
Different regions have different residents, it seems. I'm here for very good family reasons. My wife's parents are quite elderly, and need stuff done for them daily. They're staying independent and in their home only because my wife and I moved here last year. That is why we moved.
I'm very clear in my understanding of my situation here. In the case of a major disaster here, I would leave, with my wife and her parents and go elswhere. I do have places I can go and be received without question, and the plan is already in place for such an eventuality.
What is happening in New Orleans is quite predictable. Of course law enforcement is going to take folks' firearms. Anyone who thinks that would not happen in this situation is an idealist. Is it wrong? Of course it is wrong. Is there anything those residents can realistically do to prevent it? Absolutely not. Will the Bush administration put a stop to this confiscation of firearms? Of course not.
Idealism is a wonderful thing. Realism is far more practical on a day-to-day basis, especially in emergency situations.
I'm reading a lot of "lets you and him fight" posts in this and other threads. I note that those who are saying that they would stay and shoot any LEO who tried to make them leave or take their firearms are not in New Orleans right now. They're really not anywhere that puts them in that situation. It is easy to say things, but far more difficult to actually do them.
The guy on CNN this morning who declared, right in front of some LEO, with a dozen or more armed people in a truck nearby, is blustering. I do not expect that he will actually get into a firefight. He's expressing his anger and frustration, but he will end up leaving and his firearms will be taken. I mean, he's telling a cop standing right next to the reporter that he has a house full of arms. Stupid. He'll go.
Am I armed in my home? You bet I am. Am I out blowing hard about it? Absolutely not. Nor will I ever do so. In an emergency, where evacuation is called for, I will be gone before the rest are even starting to load their stuff. Among the things I will take with me are my arms. I'll duke it out later, in court, if necessary, but I'm not getting into some futile armed conflict with law enforcement. That way madness lies, at a minimum.
I'm too old for idealism. I have a wife and family to protect. Sometimes, doing that means taking the stuff and getting the heck out of town. I can be gone in less than 15 minutes. I'm always ready to leave.
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