... which happens every summer!
Posted on 09/07/2005 7:49:05 AM PDT by Uncle Joe Cannon
September 07, 2005
Public Skeptical New Orleans Will Recover Criticism, but little outrage, for Bush's and federal agencies' response to hurricane
by David W. Moore
GALLUP NEWS SERVICE
...
Despite widespread criticism of the response by Bush and, separately, the federal government, to the problems caused by the hurricane, the public seems on balance only mildly critical. Forty-two percent say Bush did a "bad" (18%) or "terrible" (24%) job, but 35% rate his response as either "great" (10%) or "good" (25%).
...
When asked to identify who was most responsible for the problems in New Orleans after the hurricane, 38% of Americans said no one was really to blame, while 13% cited Bush, 18% the federal agencies, and 25% state and local officials.
...
Few Americans feel that any top official in the agencies responsible for handling emergencies should be dismissed from office -- just 29% say someone should be fired, while 63% disagree.
(Excerpt) Read more at gallup.com ...
Polybius, I would point out that your final photo also is relevant to the catastrophic failure of state and local leadership vis a vis the evacuation--evacuation traffic heading in only one direction. When a mandatory evacuation is called (which should have been done 48 hours sooner than it was) ALL available lanes should be opened to outbound traffic.
See the Florida Keys for a prime example. GG
" It is not an enemy force who has attacked but the anti-American Bush haters are behaving as an enemy force."
Very true, but the enemy force may still have ideas. What I worry about is Zaq the Beheader and the rest of Al-Queda thinking America is preoccupied right now [in a weakened state] and planning to attack on the 9/11 anniversary. Homeland Security has to be especially vigilant in the next few days.
I did the same thing last week -- and someone told me it was "just sarcasm". It's fine. I'm glad you're here.
I know.
My family has lived in South Florida for 45 years and my brother has a condo in Key Largo. After the 1935 Labor Day Hurricane that literally wiped Islamorada off the map, NOBODY stays in the Florida Keys during a hurricane.
The liberal news media is either in 100% political partisan mode on this story or they are even stupider than I ever thought they were.
... which happens every summer!
Including the neither good nor bad category we get 56% who DON'T think the President did a bad or terrible job. It seems to me, though I may be paranoid, that it was set up so they can leave those numbers out and make things seem more negative. They still didn't achieve that for all their manipulation.
I'll keep saying: 56% of the people in this country, based on that poll don't think the President did a bad job in the wake of the levee break.
Your biggest problem is, you are hell bent on blaming the federal administration for SOMETHING. But the FACTS and REASON do not support the blame you are hell bent to place on them. So all of your ranting that you also blame the locals is just a big bloated bag of blathering HOT AIR.
I don't support the comment that the 13% is about the same percentage as blacks in America, which was made in the context of this poll.
It implied something, something not good, about virtually all blacks being the ones who are polling that Bush is to blame. Otherwise, it would be senseless to try to line up the percentages that way.
The comment meant something. Words and concepts mean something. Even implied ones mean something. Otherwise, the comment would have had no point whatsoever, just mindless drivel.
Surely a lot of blacks would say it is Bush's fault, because many have been taught that Bush is to blame for virtually everything that is wrong. But in no way would nearly all of them blame him, whereas very few if any whites would do so, which is what was implied.
Again, if not, then why line up the 13% against the 13% as a matter of RACE?
Silver lining may be that we'll get ANWR passed without a lot of trouble this Fall. Wonder who our next Supreme Court justice is going to be? Think Bush should consult with Kennedy and Pelosi on that after what they've said about him lately?
ABC and NBC did touch on that news, but neither was precise in its reporting so that the listener knew it was not Bush's responsibility to load up the buses himself.
Not exactly.
Hillary's hearing would only have delved into FEDERAl (read Bush) failures. It would not have examined failures of the State of Louisiana or the city of New Orleans.
And it definitely wouldn't have asked for an audit of all the flood control money that's been sent to LA.
My mistake, I realized that you were addressing this to our new Troll Awest :)
As Rush said yesterday, it is up to the rest of us to get the word, documentation and pictures out to the rest of America.
You got that right. He was the one I was addressing, I just included you. Almost had a heart attack when I read your FIRST reaction.
"It is up to the rest of us to get the word ...out"
You mean, like this?
Just so you have some perspective on the terrible tragedy in New Orleans and the Gulf Coast, here's some facts I rounded up these last few days as I sat numbed and stunned in front of the TV and laptop screen.
Our Constitution provides autonomy for the State governors. They are the only ones now that can mobilize their National Guards within their States to assist in their States, except in the extreme situation where they themselves are defying a Supreme Court order (like 1954 in Little Rock, Arkansas) or during an act of war on the homeland (like 9/11).
President Bush urged Gov. Kathleen Blanco (D-LA) on Friday last before hurricane Katrina hit to order a mandatory evacuation of New Orleans. She called for a "voluntary" evacuation on Saturday afternoon, saying the President Bush had urged her to evacuate. (I assume that was so she could blame him if the storm passed them by and people griped about evacuating for nothing.)
Bush declared Louisiana and Mississippi disaster areas of national emergencies two days BEFORE the hurricane hit. That is unprecedented as far as I know, but by doing that a lot of FEMA supplies and personnel could be pre-positioned in those States to assist. (But he first had to get the Governors to request that he make these declarations.)
On Saturday night the Mayor Ray Nigan of New Orleans was still dithering with lawyers about their liability if he should order the evacuation of New Orleans be mandatory. He and the lawyers decided to have people sign forms refusing mandatory evacuation so he wouldn't be liable if they didn't go, and then Sunday morning he finally ordered mandatory evacuation.
However, the Mayor of New Orleans didn't commandeer school buses or public transportation buses and start hauling people out. He pretty much left everybody to fend for themselves, as far as I know.
New Orleans has a Democrat Mayor, a Democrat City Council, a Democrat Chief of Police -- Louisiana a Democrat Attorney General, a Democrat Governor, a Democrat Lt. Governor, 24 of 39 Louisiana State Senators are Democrat, 67 of 105 Louisiana State House Representatives are Democrat, there's a Democrat Representative in the House from New Orleans, and one of two Senators in the Senate is a Democrat (The only Republican, Senator Vitter, was just elected last year, I believe.) This wasn't a case of people's needs being ignored because they were of a different political party than the politicians in power.
Governor Blanco did not request National Guard troops from outside Louisiana be prepositioned before the hurricane, and then was out of communication with her own troops after the hurricane because the disaster took down all the communication systems. She had about 6000 Guard and 1000 police to control a city of 1.4 million, but the city had become almost inaccessible due to downed trees and power lines, broken bridges, sections of highway destroyed, train tracks torn up, debris on the streets, and flooding with no means of communications.
The storm walls of the levees in New Orleans are built to withstand Category 3 hurricanes. Katrina was high Category 4, around 150 mph sustained winds when it hit, and before it hit the Coast it was a category 5, up to 175 winds for a while. The only plan for dealing with a stronger hurricane was mandatory evacuation of New Orleans, which is 10-12 feet below sea level and surrounded by levees to keep the Mississippi River out on one side and an inlet of the Gulf of Mexico (called Lake Pontchartrain) out on the other side.
For many decades the government has had cost analysis that have led them to decide they do not want to spend a lot more to raise and strengthen the storm walls on the levees to withstand Category 4 hurricanes. President Clinton and President Bush did not endorse extra funding to significantly strengthen the walls. Ironically, the one that broke was the one that had just been updated and repaired up to code. It broke because the storm surge took water over the wall, which saturated it from the inside making it weak, and the fast moving water over the top eroded it from the top down taking out more and more chunks. Also it is reported that a barge in the storm surge struck the wall, but whether that ruptured the wall or the barge was just being sucked into the breach by the rushing flow of water through it, is unknown.
The extra 60 million dollars that the politicians from Louisiana lobbied for last year would have done no good as the levees that money would have fixed weren't affected.
The disaster plans for New Orleans, laws passed by the State of Louisiana, called for mandatory evacuation of New Orleans if threatened by a Category 4 or 5 hurricane or a slow moving (5 mph or less) Category 3. It also calls for them to use public transportation and school buses to evacuated their nursing homes and other infirm residents. The Governor and Mayor simply didn't do what they were supposed to do in a timely manner, despite urging from the President.
Why did they balk at doing what was mandated by their own laws and plans? They may have feared political fallout if the evacuation turned out to be another "false alarm" They feared liability if they declared evacuation and then didn't provide transportation and care for the elderly and infirm, especially those in the care of the State, as required by law. Also they feared liability from businesses forced to shut who would suffer losses.
It was reported early Tuesday that there was a break in a levee, but it wasn't until Tuesday midnight that we heard it had become a major break (2 blocks long) and water was pouring down Canal St, inundating the city with water from Lake Pontchartrain.
The 17th St levee couldn't be fixed quickly because the force of the rushing water was carrying away everything they dropped in the breach--from sand bags to cars. A lot of the crane equipment they needed had been beached by the storm surge, and couldn't be used till it could be dug out and hauled out.
The first parish flooded was St. Bernard's parish, and later it was reported that around 70 nursing home patients there were found all dead, presumably drowned when the water rose around them.
The Coast Guard was magnificent, taking people off roofs, chopping holes in roofs to get the people out of their attics where they'd fled as the water rose. They flew over 5000 missions in a couple days. Things were so desperate that a tough decision was made diverting helicopters trying to repair the levee breach to the desperate work of rescuing people from attics and roof tops.
But Governor Blanco did not request assistance from the National Guard in other states outside Louisiana till Wednesday, after those who did not evacuate New Orleans had already endured 2 days without help. The number who did not evacuate before the hurricane was estimated to be 25% of the city -- over 300,000 people.
Democrats in my experience are always very reluctant to use military in their States, especially in situations that involve African-Americans which comprised 68% of the population of New Orleans, but probably of even more importance is that Governor Blanco was not able to get reports of conditions in New Orleans due to all communications being down. Regardless, Governor Blanco has been very much against having President Bush take control of the situation, as that would appear to mean she had allowed the city to be placed under martial law, which is apparently a big no-no for her.
Horrific situation ensued. Looting had already been reported widely before the breach in the levee became significant, but to be fair a certain amount of that was survival commandeering of needed food, water, bandaids, soap, baby diapers, dry clothes, shoes to walk on the creepy things under the flood water, etc.
The real problem was the violence. The first two FEMA helicopter pilots that flew into New Orleans were fired upon. That set the rescue back significantly as they had to call for back up, meaning time delay while bringing forward escorts and materiel to protect the rescue helicopters.
Some people had taken refuge in the Superdome to weather out the storm, and some of the roof was peeled open by the raging wind, with water coming in. Later, people who sat out the storm in their homes went to the Superdome to try to get relief food/water and transportation out of the city. Because there was no electricity there was no air conditioning. And because the flooding backed up the water and sewer lines, there were no functioning toilets. Add no medical care or security after dark (evidently the workers left at night) and the Superdome became a hell hole.
People without potable water began suffering dehydatration in the heat waiting for help to arrive.
Texas opened their hearts to them, and buses were sent to bring them over to the Astrodome in Houston, where they had electricity, airconditioning, bathrooms and kitchens. But as many as were taken away from the Superdome, more came out of the woodwork where they been hiding from thugs, and the number swelled ...on the I-10 bridge--5 000, at the convention center-- 15-30,000, and more and more at the Superdome. Over 20,000 were bused to Houston in the first 24 hours to Houston, but there were just as many left as when they started. Mayor Nagin refused to use his school buses to move the evacuees, because they didn't have bathrooms. He insisted that Greyhounds with bathrooms be sent. (One 18 year old kid went and got one of those school buses, found the keys in the parking shed, and drove it out, picking up 80 people whom he managed to drive to Houston without the Mayor's permission or assistance.)
Friday, the National Guard (still under authority of Governor Blanco) finally rolled into New Orleans in a miles long convoy of FEMA supplies (food, water, generators, medical supplies) and medical teams, security teams, etc. and the evacuation speeded up considerably, with most people taken by helicopter to the airport to fly out or in buses to Texas, where the Astrodome overflowed and the overflow was shunted to other facilities in Houston, Dallas, and San Antonio. The Superdome, the Convention Center, and I-10 overpass were cleared of evacuees by Saturday afternoon.
But there was still a cat fight going on about control of the National Guard, and whether armed force regular troops would be allowed to come and help.
When President Bush visited the area Friday after the hurricane, Mayor Nagin told him and Governor Blanco that they needed to get the authority thing straightened out about who was running the show. (Bush is legally bound not to enter a State with our armed forces if not requested by the Governor, and Governor Blanco was still in charge of her National Guard). According to Mayor of New Orleans, Nagin, Bush gave Blanco two options on the controlling authority issue and she said she needed 24 hours to think it over. Nagin switched to Bush's side then, as he felt delaying the decision would cost more lives.
Next day, Saturday, Governor Blanco hired James Lee Witt (former FEMA director under President Clinton) to run relief services in Louisiana. And some arrangement was made short of having President Bush in control, but allowing the 82nd Airborne to arrive in a bunch of helicopters with medical teams to assist the ill and dying at the refugee staging areas, and to help in the search for survivors in the city. But still under posse comitatus, they weren't allowed to do any law enforcement work or carry weapons.
A couple days ago there were still maybe 100,000 left in New Orleans, many still refusing to leave, unknown number dead or trapped in attics without sustenance.
Many people in New Orleans didn't leave because they had property they wanted to protect from criminals, because they had elderly or sick relatives or pets that they stayed to care for, or because their welfare or Social Security checks were due to come on Sept 1, because they didn't have the funds or means to leave, or because they felt they could ride the hurricane out because they had in the past.
As the storm surge in Lake Pontchartrain subsided and its level fell, water began flowing back out of the city, and then became still as the two finally equalized.
By Sunday afternoon the big levee breach had been patched (30000 lb. sandbags hauled by helicopter, bolders, rock hauled by trucks contracted by the Army Corps of Engineers and bulldozed in), and by Monday, one pump was operational and pumping water out of the city. The water was called a toxic soup of chemicals, sewage and rotting debris and bodies.
The question is mostly whether President Bush should have nationalized the Louisiana National Guard early in the crisis. That is the only move that would have made a difference. But until the State proved itself incompetent to command its National Guard, there was no legal precedent for him to do that. Now that relief and rescue efforts are moving along, it's a bit late to do that.
Texas now is sheltering around 250,000 people from Louisiana. Baton Rouge has twice the population now as it normally does from refugees there.
And this information does not address any of the devastation in Mississippi or Alabama which is wide spread, some places taking 28 feet of storm surge, with reports up to 36 feet have been rumored. But the Governors of those States seem to have managed their situations better, and also didn't have the problem of dealing with a city below sea level with such a large population and with a such huge percentage of them unable to fend for themselves.
Even now rescue continues, while Governor Blanco and Mayor Nagin argue about whether the evacuation should be mandatory, with and people forced to leave. There are probably at least 10,000 or more holdouts still refusing evacuation.
Governor Blanco is legally correct, if someone doesn't go outside, you can't force someone from their home if they don't constitute a public safety or health risk. She wants her public health department to test the flood water and prove it constitutes a significant risk of epidemics first or prove what toxic chemicals it contains that represent an inhalation problem for those who don't wade into it. The feds tested it and says it has 10,000 times the contamination from bacteria present in sewage than is acceptable.
At the last count Governor Blanco had 41,000 National Guard troops and over 17,000 (un)armed service personnel from all branches of the Department of Defense assisting her.
Hovercraft have been hitting the beaches all along the Gulf Coast since Saturday with massive supplies. Bataan was there sooner running chopper rescue missions. Iwo Jima is now anchored off New Orleans. Hospital ship Comfort left Halifax a week ago, and should be in the area now or soon. Armed forces of all services have been involved in search and rescue and relief efforts, but unarmed.
350 helicopters running back to back missions, refueling in air, delivering supplies and rescuing people, have been assisting Governor Blanco.
Katrina undoubtedly ranks as our worst disaster ever, wiping out 90,000 square miles of human habitation, and causing thousands of deaths, perhaps as many as 10,000, possibly more.
God preserve the United States of America.
That great list is. If you have references from where your data came from for each point, please put it with each point.
Then your list should be posted as a separate thread. Many freepers would then email to our friends, liberals we know and mediots we know.
because he wants to feel good about himself...or something...
it was just a stupid arse comment to make. And it doesn't even line up with the facts given and the facts as known.
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