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1 posted on 08/28/2005 11:53:54 AM PDT by LS
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To: LS
Suicide is apparently only considered "dishonorable" in Islamic cultures if you kill yourself and don't take a few infidels with you.
2 posted on 08/28/2005 11:56:31 AM PDT by Prime Choice (E=mc^3. Don't drink and derive.)
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To: LS

I think that it has to do with the extremism that has moved to the forefront - and how that has changed definitions. where committing suicide in the quiet of your room may be a dishonorable thing, carrying out a homicide bombing isn't a suicide, so much as it may be considered dying while attacking the kfir.


3 posted on 08/28/2005 11:57:57 AM PDT by Tennessee_Bob ("Nac Mac Feegle! The Wee Free Men! Nae king! Nae quin! Nae laird! We willna be fooled again!")
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To: LS

Read your Koran.

Also look up the Hashishin, aka the Assassins. It's where we get the name. And, don't forget to read up on the celebrations of the martyr Hussein.


4 posted on 08/28/2005 11:58:02 AM PDT by combat_boots (Dug in and not budging an inch. NOT to be schiavoed, greered, or felosed as a patient)
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To: LS

They are actually Homicide Bombers...


5 posted on 08/28/2005 11:59:18 AM PDT by FDNYRHEROES (Time for a new tag line...)
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To: LS
I think that maybe the Muslim culture has some very powerful and influential people at the top telling the poor and insignificant that they are being held down. When that got ingrained they went to the next step. Tell the people that if they die for the "cause". They will be rewarded.

I would not think it would take long before the masses agreed.
6 posted on 08/28/2005 12:02:12 PM PDT by pennyfarmer (Shiite Muslim named Bob.)
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To: LS

The Islamacist clerics have justified suicide attacks by putting the emphasis on the attack, rather than on the act of the suicide.

They compare it to a man waging an impossible fight and dying in the process.

In their mind is is similar to a man facing overwhelming odds, rushing into battle and dying while striking out at the infidel.

Anybody with a modicum of common sense can see the difference between their justification of suicide bombing and a suicidal mission. In a suicide bombing a terrorist dies by their own hand. In a suicidal mission, one dies at the hands of the enemy.

The clerics have equated the two kinds of attacks. It doesn't make any sense, but enough Muslims have bought the justification.


7 posted on 08/28/2005 12:03:31 PM PDT by coconutt2000 (NO MORE PEACE FOR OIL!!! DOWN WITH TYRANTS, TERRORISTS, AND TIMIDCRATS!!!! (3-T's For World Peace))
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To: LS

The same reason that Jonestown happened. A nut speaks, koolaid is consumed.


9 posted on 08/28/2005 12:10:39 PM PDT by 359Henrie
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To: LS
You're overlooking the concept of martyrdom.

Fighting for one's beliefs and dying for a noble cause.

Of course the Islamofascist application is totally wrong and perverse.

10 posted on 08/28/2005 12:13:57 PM PDT by Mister Baredog ((Minuteman at heart, couch potato in reality))
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To: LS

I can't remember the source, but I was told that it was Arafat who populized this terrorist 'technique'.
I don't know from where his justification, but he spread the idea through the schools from the youngest ages, and romanticised the concept.


12 posted on 08/28/2005 12:24:33 PM PDT by Sarah
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To: LS
There's a lot of material on this over at www.memri.org.

Example:

http://memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=subjects&Area=reform&ID=SP96805

"The Sharia rulings that forbid harming civilians remained valid [for centuries] until Sheikh Al-Qaradhawi and a group of ulama created a dangerous breach with regard to Jihad. This was when, out of support for Hamas, he ruled that suicide operations among civilians were legitimate. He said: This is one of the glorious types of Jihad, and it is a kind of terror that is legitimate according to Shari'a. He claimed that [in Israel] there is no difference between a civilian and a soldier – because the children of today are the fighters of tomorrow, and they are all occupiers.

"He [applied] this same fatwa to [suicide] operations in Iraq, saying that there was no difference between the [American] civilian and a member of the American military – because the civilian is serving the soldier. Then he applied this to all civilians, Muslims and non-Muslims, [in Iraq], who are connected to the occupation forces, by ruling that the sentence of anyone who collaborates with the occupier is the same as the sentence of the occupier himself. This is the same basis of jurisprudence one on which [Abu Mus'ab] Al-Zarqawi, [Abu Muhammad] Al-Maqdisi, [3] Abu Qatada, [4] and Sheikh Hamed Al-'Ali [5] rely…

"This fatal breach has created an ideological and moral crisis in Islam – as [former editor of the Saudi daily Al-Watan Jamal] Khashoggi said [in a July 19, 2005 article in the UAE daily Al-Itihad ]– and it has caused much damage to Islam and the Muslims. The moral deterioration has reached the point that they blow up children in Baghdad and peaceful civilians on buses in London. These fatwa s are a moral and ideological mark of shame, which we must purge from our Islam…"

14 posted on 08/28/2005 12:26:34 PM PDT by angkor
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To: LS

["it seems that prior to the mid-1970s at least....."]

Well, your timing is about right. But, I would consider your question more generally, More specifically, I think the consequences of the actions of the Arab terrorists at the 1972 Olympic games in Munich was a major paradigm shift in the thinking of these fanatics. In short, they realized that terrorism could work (T.V. network coverage, etc.)


16 posted on 08/28/2005 12:28:29 PM PDT by LjubivojeRadosavljevic
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To: LS
You only have one son, and you want him to BlowUp right... right???
So use JIHADD brand Semtex Explosive to show you really care!!!

Money back guarantee if not completely satisfied... or if he lives.

24 posted on 08/28/2005 12:43:34 PM PDT by Chode (American Hedonist ©®)
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To: LS

I don't think they consider it suicide. It has always been desirable to die gloriously in battle in any culture. This is an extension of this. Remember this is an attack, not a suicide.

Think of the marine who jumps on the grenade to save his fellow marines. Would anyone consider that a mortal sin because it is suicide? I don't think so.


27 posted on 08/28/2005 12:47:02 PM PDT by tbeatty (I didn't claw my way to the top of the food chain to eat salad.)
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To: LS

The short answer is that it isn't suicide when you kill non Muslims by exploding yourself and a bomb. It's called martyrdom. These psychos are revered by the ummah as martyrs. Islamic scholars also call them martyrs

A Muslim commits suicide when kills just himself. This is forbidden always.


29 posted on 08/28/2005 12:54:20 PM PDT by dennisw (Muhammad was a successful Hitler. Hitler killed too many people too fast - L. Auster)
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To: LS

The more innocents you kill the better in these idiots eyes.


31 posted on 08/28/2005 1:13:33 PM PDT by tkathy (Tyranny breeds terrorism. Freedom breeds peace.)
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To: LS

Understanding Islamic terrorism is an exercise in futility. Who cares? The clerics and leaders who train the homicide/suicide bombers and send them on their missions are cowards, and the 72 virgins these pathetic lemmings are told they will get in "paradise" are horny homosexual males. We're the good guys, and in spite of Cindy Sheehan and the democrat left wanting us to lose to these monsters doesn't change the fact that we need to kick their collective butts. I don't want to understand these people. There's nothing to understand. No cause could be noble that advocates killing innocent and unarmed civilians and not worthy of my time or one single brain cell investing to understand them. Period.


33 posted on 08/28/2005 1:23:45 PM PDT by manwiththehands (Mohammadamadingdong)
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To: LS

IslamOnline.net: "Ask The Scholar"
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?cid=1118742803355&pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/Page/FatwaCounselE


36 posted on 08/28/2005 1:36:45 PM PDT by Cindy
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To: LS

I think the phase irrational fanaticism goes a long way toward explaining it.


37 posted on 08/28/2005 1:40:04 PM PDT by luvbach1 (Near the belly of the beast in San Diego)
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To: All
ON THE NET...


A Discussion on FREEREPUBLIC.com regarding a HISTORY NEWS NETWORK article: "DOES HISTORY CONDONE BEHEADINGS?" by Timothy R. Furnish (June 11, 2005)

MEFORUM.org - The Middle East Quarterly: "BEHEADING IN THE NAME OF ISLAM" by Timothy Furnish (Spring 2005, Volume XII: Number 2)


YAHOO! - News Articles - Search Term: "BOMB"

YAHOO! News Articles - Key Word Topic: "MISSILE"

MEMRI.org - Search Term: "Suicide (Martyrdom) Operations"

YAHOO! News - Photo Gallery: "Suicide Bomber" (NOTE: Click on any of the numerous thumbnail photos to get THE BIG PICTURE.)

GOOGLE - Search Term: "HOMICIDE BOMBERS"

FrontPageMagazine.com: "SYMPOSIUM: THROUGH THE EYES OF A SUICIDE BOMBER" by Jamie Glazov (August 12, 2005)

MEMRI.org - Special Dispatch Series - No. 909: "BAHRAINI AUTHOR AND JOURNALIST: THE PROPONENTS OF THE SUICIDE IDEOLOGY HAVE TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF GLOBAL COMMUNICATIONS" (ARTICLE SNIPPET: "In an article that appeared in the Saudi daily Al-Yawm, titled "The Globalization of Islamic Suicide" author and journalist Sawsan Al-Sha'er wrote that the extremist Islamist groups are taking advantage of global communications to recruit suicide bombers, and predicted the spread of the suicide bomber phenomenon to Britain as well.") (May 17, 2005)
JIHAD WATCH.org (DAWN): "MAJORITY OF SUICIDE BOMBERS ARE EDUCATED" (January 13, 2005)

FOX NEWS.com: "TICKET TO HELL" by David Asman (December 9, 2004)

MEMRI.org - MIDDLE EAST MEDIA RESEARCH INSTITUTE Special Report - No.32: "MEMRI TV Project Special Report: Arab and Iranian TV Clips in Support of Suicide Bombing" (September 1, 2004)
JIHAD WATCH.org: "RATIONAL, EDUCATED AND PROSPEROUS: JUST YOUR AVERAGE SUICIDE BOMBER" (May 15, 2004)

SAAG.org - SOUTH ASIA ANALYSIS GROUP: "SUICIDE & SUICIDAL TERRORISM" by B. Raman (March 12, 2004)

JIHAD WATCH.org (HAARETZ): "10 SUICIDE BOMBINGS FOILED OVER PASSOVER HOLIDAY" (ARTICLE SNIPPET: "One of two Tanzim activists caught at the end of March told interrogators the group that sent them had planned a series of other attacks, including one with a device to which blood infected with AIDS would be attached.") (April 13, 2004)
NEW SCIENTIST.com: "SUICIDE BOMBERS MAY SPREAD DISEASE" (July 24, 2002)>

NEW SCIENTIST.com - Search term: "TERRORISM"

38 posted on 08/28/2005 1:42:40 PM PDT by Cindy
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To: LS

What happened is that the ideology of the Muslim Brotherhoods became all-pervasive in the Arab world. One of the intellectual 'lights' of the Muslim Brotherhoods was Sayyed Qutb, who imbibed a great deal of existentialist philosophy, along with a vicious anti-Westernism in the French mould, during a sojourn in the West (including the U.S. where he found 1950's rock-and-roll degenerate).

Qutb fused the existentialist version of 'absolute commitment' as the source of meaning in an absurd world with the classical Islamic understanding of marytrdom (which included death in battle against 'infidels') and argued that the 'absolute commitment' of a suicide attack was a form of absolute islam (submission) to Allah, and thus a form of martyrdom rather than of suicide, which was classically considered haram (forbidden) by Muslims on the
basis of a few Koranic verses.

Incidentally, a Syrian cleric, usually considered a fundamentalist radical, just yesterday or today issued a fatwa upholding the classical understanding and considering suicide attacks as suicide rather than martyrdom-seeking.

(Finally, let's have none of the idiotic 'homicide bomber' nonsense around here: except for ETA which always phones in evacuation notices before blowing Spanish buildings, all bombers are intent on homicide, so adding
'homicide' is vacant of meaning. The distinctively obnoxious feature of the neo-Islamic practice is the use
of youths as guidance systems for bombs, a practice which shows not the extension of conflict from military means to murder, but utter contempt for human life, even one's own and that of one's faithful followers. "Suicide bomber" is the correct name.)


41 posted on 08/28/2005 1:59:56 PM PDT by The_Reader_David (And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know . . .)
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