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1 posted on 08/21/2005 7:56:53 AM PDT by CO Gal
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To: CO Gal

Biology just created itself. Amazing.


2 posted on 08/21/2005 7:59:38 AM PDT by Sam's Army
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To: CO Gal

Both Creationists and Evolutionists despise Intelligent Design.

It's always fun trying to guess which side they are on when they trash it.


3 posted on 08/21/2005 7:59:38 AM PDT by SteveMcKing
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To: CO Gal

I'm a monkey with a drivers license.

Cool.


4 posted on 08/21/2005 8:01:14 AM PDT by msf92497 (My brain is "twitchy")
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To: CO Gal

Not a barf.

Evolution is what scientists use to study much of biology.

ID and Creation do not belong in science classes because there is no scientific approach to studying them.


5 posted on 08/21/2005 8:01:16 AM PDT by From many - one.
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To: CO Gal
I have somehow managed to avoid most ID/evo discussions but after listening to the "science" teacher at my kids grade school (Jupiter Christian Academy) explain ID I am now very concerned.

Can someone clarify this authors statement :The problem is "we've got people who think the Earth is 6,000 years old and that God put the fossils in the ground,"

Is this representative of the ID argument?

6 posted on 08/21/2005 8:02:38 AM PDT by corkoman (Overhyped)
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To: CO Gal
"And allowing creationists to undermine the teaching of science through some misguided demand for equal classroom time for a supposition that has nothing to do with science is hardly benign."

Pure editorializing on the part of the reporter.

8 posted on 08/21/2005 8:03:14 AM PDT by Sam's Army
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To: CO Gal

Why does this have a barf alert?


10 posted on 08/21/2005 8:04:24 AM PDT by SunTzuWu
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To: CO Gal
"...most Americans are clueless about basic science. With most people content with being scientifically illiterate, it's no wonder so many believe intelligent design is a scientific theory."

The article nails it.

11 posted on 08/21/2005 8:05:58 AM PDT by Rudder
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To: CO Gal

Evolution is a theory, and as such, it can never be scientifically proven (much like the Theory of Gravitation, or Atomic Theory, etc.)

Intelligent Design can never even become scientific theory. It has no testable, falsifiable hypothesis.


25 posted on 08/21/2005 8:19:22 AM PDT by Quick1
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To: CO Gal
We have the proof. It's unequivocal," said Norm Pace, a professor of molecular, cellular and developmental biology at CU. The astronomical, geological and biological evidence of evolution is overwhelming.

No, math is unequivocal. You add 2 items to 2 items and you have 4 items. It's provable, testable and works the same way every time you try it. It's so easy and basic that you can teach it to small children who can demonstrate it to others.

Evolution on the other hand is a theory constructed upon available evidence. It's a common shared belief held among a segment of the population. You can't prove it to those who don't believe it because it requires that you give up your own beliefs in order to believe it. It's not probable or testable. You can't show me that a fruit fly turns into anything other than a fruit fly over countless generations of fruitflies. You can't demonstrate that a virus turns into anything other than a virus over countless generations.

28 posted on 08/21/2005 8:23:21 AM PDT by DouglasKC
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To: CO Gal

Hey, was this a "plant" message?
OK>....

The professor who said that antibiotics is an example of
evolution probably doesn't understand that most if not all
of the mutations are "plasmid" related, that is, an extra
source of DNA is inserted into a bacterium, and this confers
the ability to resist certain antibiotics. Also, many of the
"evolved" defenses are simply variations of already existing
structures. The size of the "porins" which are openings into
the bacterial cells can change. This can cause less bacteriotoxins
to enter the cell, (confering "resistance").

The point the professor misses, is that the bacteria so far
has not been known to mutate to lets say a PPLO, or a
mycobacteria, or a fungus or....whatever.

The point is made that the HIV virus mutates so fast....
in fact it mutates so fast that there is no such thing
as a definable species of HIV...you cannot grow it in culture
without it mutating, so what is the original virus???
Technically, I believe it is called a "quasi" species...
Their mutations are seen because these viruses have no
correction system, as mammalian cells have. Which brings up
a serious conundrum. Why would a system evolve which suppresses
genome change? Wouldn't a more deformable genome allow an
organism to survive and adapt better? What was the selection pressure
that caused a very complex, redundant, feedback gene repair
system to develop, if it would be detrimental to the organisms
ability to survive?

However, if it mutates so fast, why
doesn't it become a different type of virus??? It is still a
retrovirus with a specific shape and ordering of of its
genome. And this brings up another issue. Why do combinations
of drugs suppress its replication? Because these drugs work
on different areas of the genomic expression (i.e. different
biochemical entities)...the chances of let's say all 3 or all
4 of the sites mutating favorably in favor of survival of
the virus is very small...so the viruses cannot reproduce...
a few do survive either by "hiding" in body tissues, or
my getting that mutation. They still remain retroviruses.

This brings up the point of the "belief in inches" not miles.
If I can run 10 miles an hour, shouldn't I be able to run
20 miles an hour? If I run 20 miles an hour which is double
the previous,shouldn't I run at 40 miles an hour?
Of course not, I don't have the heart, weight, blood supply,
oxygenation, muscle speed, etc to do the latter.
The application of a simple mathematical concept (i.e. proportion)
to complex biological processes is as simple-minded as it gets.
I feel sorry for the students of that professor.

The final value of pi has not been determined yet.
We still use an approximation for it. This is a conundrum for
me...why does a number which represents a finite
geometric relationship not have a final value. What is the quality with our mathematical
concept of numbers that allows that type of number? Not that
it's too important in a Newtonian world, it would certainly
be difficult to predict ones direction in an infinite space
using pi as a guide...we're blessed in that our approximations
of Pi are good enough for Newtonian space.

Finally, the teachers were upset that Americans don't really
understand science....they neglect that many (if not most)
journalists, filmmakers, authors, teachers (non-research oriented)
, newscasters don't understand science (since they would fall
into that group called Americans). Yet the latter groups are
the ones who have popularized one type of scientific thought,
and repeat it,and repeat it...why isn't the professor bemoaning
their ignorance? This conference was about was that
Americans don't understand science, well that includes those
who believe in evolution too, doesn't it?

Like I said, was this a plant?


35 posted on 08/21/2005 8:39:07 AM PDT by Getready ((...Fear not ...))
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To: CO Gal

Bravo! Great article. You can't allow the uniformed to graft a non-scientific idea onto science and expect those within the field to accept it. In no other academic study, from engineering to medicine to literature, would such an assault by outsiders be accepted. The inmates can't run the asylum.


36 posted on 08/21/2005 8:40:16 AM PDT by ValenB4 ("Every system is perfectly designed to get the results it gets." - Isaac Asimov)
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To: CO Gal

37 posted on 08/21/2005 8:42:14 AM PDT by LeeHarvey
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To: donh

Ping


56 posted on 08/21/2005 9:04:55 AM PDT by Radix (Why do they call them Morons when they do not know as much? Shouldn't they be Lessons?)
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To: CO Gal
Interesting, our priest spoke about evolution today in his homily.

Spoke of the two side on the issue.

How some scientist claimed it all happen with a big bang.

His response, what caused the bang to occur? If they say it was always there,then they are identifing God.

57 posted on 08/21/2005 9:06:10 AM PDT by mware (Trollhunter of Note)
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To: CO Gal
Mitton is a bit inaccurate when he describes the Indiana legislature's action on pi. What actually happened is that a crank (somebody named Goodwin, if memory serves) approached the legislature claiming to have solved the ancient geometry problem of squaring the circle, and that if the legislature were to pass a resolution acknowledging his great discovery, he would allow them to use it in textbooks in the state without royalties. In fact, it had already been proved that it is impossible to solve this geometry problem; a Purdue University mathematics professor happened to be in Indianapolis at the time, and he warned the legislature. The measure was tabled. To gain credibility, the crank had an article published in the American Mathematical Monthly, a new journal that ran his article unrefereed as filler ("by request of the author"). The Monthly still exists; a good university library will have that early issue on the shelf. It turns out that Goodwin thought that (e.g.) if you double the linear dimensions of a geometric figure, you double its area. His paper implied several different values of pi; the value you hear cited is 3.2. But this wasn't an effort to simplify pi, it was just plain foolishness.
68 posted on 08/21/2005 9:22:46 AM PDT by megatherium
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To: CO Gal

One can marvel at how the inverse square law produces stable orbits about massive objects like the sun, molecules that are mirror images of each other, the difficulty of finding living conditions similar to earth on other planets, etc., etc., but scientists only delve into the "gee-whiz" when they're giving tours of labs and making guest appearances on PBS. The stuff that needs to be tought in school is not "theories of everything", but doing real science, i.e. details. designing experiments and interpreting data. Same thing goes for math. Injecting ideology or philosophy into science is just as dumb as extracting ideology or philosophy from science. This country needs more technocrats and fewer activists.


92 posted on 08/21/2005 10:20:13 AM PDT by dr_who_2
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To: CO Gal

Why the Barf? I pretty much agree with the entire article.


99 posted on 08/21/2005 10:33:16 AM PDT by blowfish
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To: CO Gal

108 posted on 08/21/2005 11:01:05 AM PDT by kcvl
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To: CO Gal; Alamo-Girl
Evolutionists = Monkeys looking into a mirror..

ID'ers = Monkeys watching the other monkeys looking into a mirror, and have opinions of their own about whats goin on..

Creationists = Monkeys watching the other two groups debating about the mirror, but don't care about the mirror, and don't think they are monkeys...

110 posted on 08/21/2005 11:14:57 AM PDT by hosepipe (This Propaganda has been edited to include not a small amount of Hyperbole..)
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