I guess I'll just sashay up to the local noisy eatery...Honey get my 45....
I'll keep ya posted...I'm the guy with hair though....not the bald guy....
Posted on 08/21/2005 6:02:36 AM PDT by CholeraJoe
"Never, ever leave home without it." No, not your American Express card, your sidearm.
This morning, I woke up about 4:15 and was hungry, so I decided to drive to the local 24-hour beanery. The only other customers were a table of 10, intoxicated 20-somethings making alot of noise.
There were 7 muscular young men and three loud-mouthed young women. After listening to their raucous laughter for 10 minutes, I politely asked the waitress to ask them to hold down the noise. All I wanted to do was eat my breakfast in relative peace.
Her request for quiet lasted about 45 seconds, then the noise and laughter resumed. At that point, I decided to do something.
Bear in mind that I am not an imposing figure. I'm 5'9", mid 50's, and slim. I walked over to the table, and walked completely around it twice. I said, "I'd like y'all to hold down the noise for a while, please." One of the young men started to give me trash-talk but within seconds was elbowed by the guy next to him, who whispered something in his ear. Then everyone at the table said, "Yes, sir, or OK."
What made the difference? Open carry. I was wearing a 9mm semi-auto on my right hip. I never touched it and I made no threats, but it was nevertheless visible.
It's one thing to be ignorant. It's another to let everyone else know.
Make of this what you will, but I respectfully decline to go back over a thread that's gotten this big and extract the citations that reveal his lies. I simply don't have time. Top of my head, the kids using racial epithets was one (never mentioned till needed), the reaction of the waitress was another (it evolved, shall we say)....
I also think that, even if I had chapter and verse, you would find argument, as you are leaning in his defense. By the way, Samuel Clemens would have skewered this guy.
By that logic, open carry is inherently wrong.
I see nothing wrong with somone lawfully open carrying asking others to mind their manners.
I absolutly agree with you. I have a CC permit, and do carry, but my FIRST obligation is to AVOID any and all potential confrontations. Funny how firepower under the shirt brngs with it, an incredible level of discernment and responsibility. To confront a petty grievence while carrying is simply looking for trouble and goes against everything I know about personal security.
This isn't a guy who happened to be armed politely asking the kids to quiet down. This is a hot-head displaying his still-holstered weapon for them to see to make them shut up.
Not out of line at all, but enforcing that expectation by displaying one's firearm is. Way out of proportion, in my opinion. Protecting one's "right" to a quiet meal is not exactly defending one's home or person.
Sorry, not a lawyer.
How do you tell someone they came of a hair width of losing their life over a mistaken principle?
CJ
I must be on the wrong side of the law, film maker. That's it. Got any investment money looking for me? LOL
DK
I guess I'll just sashay up to the local noisy eatery...Honey get my 45....
I'll keep ya posted...I'm the guy with hair though....not the bald guy....
No. You initiated the confrontation and your actions could easily be construed as threatening. If the manager didn't or wouldn't get them to quiet down, you leave - they were no threat to you.
You're a dangerous guy, judging from this story, and really should rethink your decision to carry a weapon. Or the odds of you ending up in prison for negligent homicide will eventually catch up with you.
I work late, handle cash in public and have a business, employees and myself to care for. I also have a CCW and guess what - I think you acted like an ass.
Let us not overlook the fact that open carry is LEGAL in some places....that may offend you...but it is legal.
We have at least 5 LEO in our congregation and one of them seems to either be going off shift or coming on for each of the services so we have open carry.
No, it is not. Montana law requires that you do all that is possible to avoid a confrontation. Here, you were the aggressor, in violation of MCA 45-3-105. Montana (unlike other jurisdictions) does not require you retreat to avoid a confrontation (State v. Merk, 53 M. 454 [1917]), but since you inttiate the confrontation, you couldn't plead justification of self-defense.
"Er, um. I think case law and the US Civil Rights code would state that any establishment open to the public is not private property."
Joe- you aren't a lawyer, are you? Neither am I, but here in Northern Virginia, some restaurants do not allow you to conceal/carry in their establishments.
Why? well I didn't really understand why. It seemed hysterically anti-gun, and so I avoid those places that I know about that have this policy. I get it now though. You are the reason.
The point is, they can do this because it's their property and they can set the rules. I can choose not to abide by them by not patronizing them.
There's a difference between open-carry and flaunting the firearm to enforce your noise preferences.
CholeraJoe did the latter.
That doesn't offend me at all. Circling the table of some noisy kids to give them a good look at the gun while "politely" asking them to be quiet does.
I couldn't agree more with you.
Eaker checked in earlier, but I'd like to see what the others on your list think.
You know enough to be dangerous here. Heart of Atlanta v. United States, 379 U.S. 241 (1964) and Katzenbach v. McClung, 379 U.S. 241 (1964) allowed the Federal Government to prohibit diner and hotel discrimination on the grounds of the Commerce Clause. This did not abolish the private nature of the property, just opened them up to regulation since they were open to the public.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.