Victims may have died before crash( Passengers frozen solid! )

CNN ^ | 08/15/2005 | CNN

[devane617]

ATHENS, Greece (CNN) -- Investigators were working to determine why a Cypriot plane apparently suffered a catastrophic loss of cabin pressure and slammed into a Greek mountain -- possibly with all 121 people on board already dead. All but two of the bodies have been recovered, a Greek government spokesman said Monday, and officials hope autopsies and cockpit recorders will hold clues to Sunday's crash of Helios Airways Flight 522. The autopsies were ordered to determine if the 115 passengers and six crew were already dead or oxygen-starved before the crash, the spokesman said. A Greek Defense Ministry source with access to the investigation told Reuters that most of the bodies recovered were "frozen solid."

[HerrKobes]

That would mean about 0 degrees F at 30,000 feet

I must respectfully disagree. The Standard Atmospheric Temperature at FL300 is -44, and even over Greece you won't find a temperature deviation more than +20. Even at FL280 over Texas on a nice 100 degree day the temperature is usually around -26 to -28.

I have no idea how long it takes to freeze a body solid, but I do know that any temperature over -20 is pretty implausible at FL300.

We still use the adiabatic lapse rate as a wag to figure out temperatures at LOWER altitudes if a forecast isn't available, but I wouldn't use it to estimate temperatures aloft based on the surface temperature.

[mewzilla]

Almost 50 minutes between when contact was lost and the fighters were scrambled? Well, they were in no hurry, were they?

[Dallas59]

I don't trust the BBC...they're Pro Israeli.

[Jonx6]

"...but you know, that A/C system which is suppose to heat the air must have completely failed...

The A/C system also provides the air to pressurize the cabin with. You have the A/C blow more air into the cabin than you need and you control the delta pressure via the outflow valve.

[Zavien Doombringer]

the Aft stairs in a 727 and DC9 have what is called the DB Cooper lock. IN flight it swings to keep the door from opening.

The 737 does not have this type of aft stairs. It is impossible to open a cabin door while the aircraft is pressurized. the aft stais dropped down. Cabin doors have to be "pulled" in before swinging out.

[Heatseeker]

I'm no pilot, but isn't that a little high for a short haul?

My thoughts exactly.

And mewzilla, note that it took from 1007 to 1120 to go from no-contact to fighter intercept. Hope the Greeks haven't ticked off any jihadists lately.

[mewzilla]

I saw that, too. Sheesh.

[Zavien Doombringer]

Hmmm, prior service or current mech?

[July 4th]

although I don't think the emergency oxygen system on an airliner is designed to last more than a few minutes?

There's supposed to be about 10 to 12 minutes of oxygen for passengers. The crew has their own bottled oxygen with masks, which should last much longer than that. In order to descend from 30,000 feet safely to a breathable 10 or 11,000 feet, I think it takes roughly 4 minutes.

So I think there must have been something else going on. The crew might have had bad oxygen, or the decompression was so sudden that it caused instant shock and disorientation, not allowing enough time for the pilots to properly secure masks.

[Heatseeker]

...and all that time it's flying around Athens!

[mewzilla]

Can you have sudden decompression without explosive decompression?

[Prime Choice]

And of course, this is all Bush's fault.

Yup...the Saddamites say so. Therefore, it is so.

[Paradox]

The A/C system also provides the air to pressurize the cabin with. You have the A/C blow more air into the cabin than you need and you control the delta pressure via the outflow valve

Right, my guess is that something took out the pilots before they could bring her down to a lower altitude.

As for terrorist speculation that is always on this thread, I think if it was terrorist ON BOARD, then the guy would have text messages "TERRORIST ON BOARD" in stead of "We are frozon", sheesh, the one track minds we have here.

Just for fun, I will, however, ask this question, has anyone looked into WHO maintained this aircraft? Who checked out the A/C system before takeoff? Who worked on it last? Lots of "international" type of people live and work in Greece...

[mewzilla]

And does anyone know if there's anything squirrely about the CVR and FDR going to Paris for analysis?

[Jonx6]

Prior FE. Of course on our planes, C-5's, we flew with the outflow valve completely shut and used cargo chains wrapped in blankets and trash bags to seal around the cargo pressure doors and that would determine what delta P we could get and is some cases what our FL was gunna be for that hop.

[pa mom]

Not in Greek--that phrase does not exist.

[Zavien Doombringer]

Decompression isn't any different than opening a soda bottle. The sudden loss of pressure actually condence and freeze the air inside a cabin. It is possible that this happened. The question would be is that what happened.

[mewzilla]

As for terrorist speculation that is always on this thread, I think if it was terrorist ON BOARD, then the guy would have text messages "TERRORIST ON BOARD" in stead of "We are frozon", sheesh, the one track minds we have here.

And give authorities a heads up? I doubt it.

[dljordan]

"Bodies frozen solid! How can this happen. Any airplane folks out ther that can explain?"

The hull would have to be breached for the people to freeze solid. I just don't believe it.

[neodad]

It is impossible to open a cabin door while the aircraft is pressurized. the aft stais dropped down. Cabin doors have to be "pulled" in before swinging out

But if it was already decompressed? I'm just trying to raise possiblities. Why so many official stories already?