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Victims may have died before crash( Passengers frozen solid! )
CNN ^ | 08/15/2005 | CNN

Posted on 08/15/2005 8:47:22 AM PDT by devane617

ATHENS, Greece (CNN) -- Investigators were working to determine why a Cypriot plane apparently suffered a catastrophic loss of cabin pressure and slammed into a Greek mountain -- possibly with all 121 people on board already dead. All but two of the bodies have been recovered, a Greek government spokesman said Monday, and officials hope autopsies and cockpit recorders will hold clues to Sunday's crash of Helios Airways Flight 522. The autopsies were ordered to determine if the 115 passengers and six crew were already dead or oxygen-starved before the crash, the spokesman said. A Greek Defense Ministry source with access to the investigation told Reuters that most of the bodies recovered were "frozen solid."

(Excerpt) Read more at cnn.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Government; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: air; aircraft; airplane; boeing737; heliosairways; terror; terrorist; travel
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To: devane617
This sort of thing can happen.

I saw it in "The X-Men" and in "The Day After Tomorrow" (the "science" in the latter was labeled "solid" by "President" Al Gore, so you know it's the schizzle.)

21 posted on 08/15/2005 8:56:43 AM PDT by dead (I've got my eye out for Mullah Omar.)
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To: devane617

"Bush probably made the airline hire low wage illegals to fly the plane:)"


Nope, we only let them load luggage and maintain American planes.


22 posted on 08/15/2005 8:57:22 AM PDT by cripplecreek (If you must obey your party, may your chains rest lightly upon your shoulders.)
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To: RightWhale
"It can happen quickly and there are 20 seconds to do something about it once the oxygen is depleted."

Not for the pilots they would have had advanced warning of any depresurrisation not matter how subtle via alarms in the cockpit. Also in the event of catastrophic failures the pilots are trained to recognize the advanced effects of oxygen deprivation. they have better and more advanced breathing equipment in their cockpit, so why did they die at their controls? Some theories in Europe at the moment point to faulty AC which could have being pumping toxic gases through the plane.

23 posted on 08/15/2005 8:57:23 AM PDT by Kelly_2000
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To: devane617

> Bodies frozen solid! How can this happen.

Based on the shortness of the flight (1 hr), I don't think
it can.

The report may be incorrect, or this may just be a
military spokesperson mistaking cold bodies in rigor
mortis for "frozen".

Even rigor is iffy, as that takes some time, too.
Let's not rule out intentional misinformation just yet.


24 posted on 08/15/2005 8:57:37 AM PDT by Boundless
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To: CHICAGOFARMER; Rudder
?....At 30,000 feet the outside air is minus 50 degrees. ...?

? Why,.....why was this plane at 30,000 feet at all?

.....Gas-Compressed-Ice-System?

...brilliant sabatage?

...or,....just,....first,....'special-fumes'...in the cockpit cabin

Condolence,......in Jesus' Precious Name......

25 posted on 08/15/2005 8:57:41 AM PDT by maestro
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To: Rummyfan

It was a Boeing 737-300.

And yeah, up there at 35,000 feet, it's about -40 to -50 degrees. The cold isn't what would kill them, though, the air up there is too thin to breathe. They'd pass out in less than a minute, and eventually suffocate. If they had oxygen, maybe they'd last long enough for hypothermia to kill them instead...although I don't think the emergency oxygen system on an airliner is designed to last more than a few minutes? They don't use bottled oxygen, they use chemical generators that give off O2 from a chemical reaction. Those generators were what caused that Valujet DC-9 to crash into the Everglades several years back; they were carrying a bunch as cargo, some of the generators activated, and the heat they gave off caused a cargo fire.

If they were up there for an hour and a half, and then descended suddenly...yeah, maybe they could be frozen, I guess. That still doesn't explain why the flight crew couldn't get the plane down to a safe altitude, though.

}:-)4


26 posted on 08/15/2005 8:57:48 AM PDT by Moose4 (Newsflash: It's the South. In the summer. IT GETS HOT. DEAL WITH IT.)
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To: CHICAGOFARMER
At 30,000 feet the outside air is minus 50 degrees.

No. The adiabatic lapse rate is approx. three degrees per thousand feet. 3x30=90 degrees colder than on the ground. Summer in Greece runs about 90 degrees F. That would mean about 0 degrees F at 30,000 feet, which is not even close to the temp required to freeze a human body solid in less than 18 hours. The flight was only into its second or third hour when the decompression happened. I don't believe it's possible that the bodies were "frozen solid."


27 posted on 08/15/2005 8:57:53 AM PDT by pabianice
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To: devane617
The pilots of the Helios jet had reported an air conditioning problem after takeoff, and a passenger sent a text message to his cousin saying it was freezing in the plane.

Someone from Gitmo must have adjusted the thermostat.

28 posted on 08/15/2005 8:58:58 AM PDT by sportutegrl (People who say, "All I know is . . ." really mean, "All I want you to focus on is . . .")
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To: devane617

Does anyone else find irony in people on a Helios Arways flight freezing to death?


29 posted on 08/15/2005 8:59:03 AM PDT by Fierce Allegiance (This ain't your granddaddy's America)
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To: devane617

I was wondering if the text message that a passenger sent to his cousin was translated incorrectly.

I guess not. He said something about "...We are frozen." It was literally true.

Oh those poor people! How awful!


30 posted on 08/15/2005 9:00:27 AM PDT by It's me
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To: maestro
"Why,.....why was this plane at 30,000 feet at all?"

That is the cruising altitude for this model aircraft, well within it's operating ceiling.

31 posted on 08/15/2005 9:00:37 AM PDT by Kelly_2000
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To: devane617

A couple of quick questions ...

The plane was on auto pilot cruising at 10,000' or so it was reported initially. No super cold - no lack of oxygen at 10,000 - none of the interior windows were fogged/iced over

A cell phone call MINUTES before the crash has been "re-interpreted" from "I am frozen" (as in fear or other) to be "we are all freezing to death" - interesting change of wording to fit the required circumstance.

most of the reports by searchers were that only small pieces" of human flesh" wer found scatterred around rthe area --- now all bodies were frozen solid?

We will NEVER be told the truth on this "occurence"

We should also not forget the capture of alqaueda terrorist in Turkey (very near) that they were going to be taking over airliners and crashing them --- this has been interetingly suppressed. no?


32 posted on 08/15/2005 9:00:54 AM PDT by hombre_sincero
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To: pabianice

As for incapacitation after decompression, the useful time after such at 30,000 feet varies between 20 and 60 seconds, depending upon the individual. Surely enough time for the pilots to don their O2 masks. That they didn't suggests a slow decompression no one detected and that somehow failed to alert the pilots before they passed out. Hypoxia sets in with a feeling of warmth and euphoria for most.


33 posted on 08/15/2005 9:00:55 AM PDT by pabianice
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To: dead
(the "science" in the latter was labeled "solid" by "President" Al Gore

Solid, like a turd.

34 posted on 08/15/2005 9:01:46 AM PDT by Fierce Allegiance (This ain't your granddaddy's America)
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To: It's me
"Oh those poor people! How awful!"

Yes how very awful words fail me

35 posted on 08/15/2005 9:01:54 AM PDT by Kelly_2000
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To: Fierce Allegiance

36 posted on 08/15/2005 9:01:56 AM PDT by cripplecreek (If you must obey your party, may your chains rest lightly upon your shoulders.)
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To: CHICAGOFARMER

Yes, but unless there is a VERY sudden decompression, pilots would respond to a dangerous decrease in cabin air temperature by moving quickly to a much lower altitude and immediately requesting emergency landing clearance at the nearest airport that can handle the type of plane in question. In this case, the only reported indication of a problem was the pilot reporting "an air conditioning problem". This is really bizarre, but I have to think there was some sort of explosion or other sudden major structural problem. When a commercial jet pilot's fingers start turning blue, s/he wouldn't wait to pass out and freeze solid before trying to take corrective action.


37 posted on 08/15/2005 9:02:46 AM PDT by GovernmentShrinker
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To: It's me
....He said something about "...We are frozen." It was literally true.

....maybe, it is to be better interpreted as,...."...We've been 'Iced'...",.....murdered?

38 posted on 08/15/2005 9:02:53 AM PDT by maestro
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To: Kelly_2000
but didn't you notice a number of false information tidbits right from the beginning, before they even knew what had happened? first, i heard a report the airlines was privately run...then they said there were 80 children on board, then that was denied. then it was revised down to 38 or so...almost immediately terrorism was ruled out, even though that was, i believe, the third plane to go down in that area in a week...apparently the plane went around and around for 20 minutes without communication, according to a report today.

and the f16 pilots said they SAW other persons in the cockpit apparently trying to right the plane, with the pilots down. it's all very strange.

39 posted on 08/15/2005 9:03:08 AM PDT by wildwood
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To: pabianice
"That they didn't suggests a slow decompression no one detected and that somehow failed to alert the pilots before they passed out"

Impossible so called "creeping" alerts are part of the pressurization fail safe, alarms would have indicated this situation to the pilots long before the situation required breathing apparatus to remain conscious

40 posted on 08/15/2005 9:04:00 AM PDT by Kelly_2000
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