Victims may have died before crash( Passengers frozen solid! )

CNN ^ | 08/15/2005 | CNN

[devane617]

ATHENS, Greece (CNN) -- Investigators were working to determine why a Cypriot plane apparently suffered a catastrophic loss of cabin pressure and slammed into a Greek mountain -- possibly with all 121 people on board already dead. All but two of the bodies have been recovered, a Greek government spokesman said Monday, and officials hope autopsies and cockpit recorders will hold clues to Sunday's crash of Helios Airways Flight 522. The autopsies were ordered to determine if the 115 passengers and six crew were already dead or oxygen-starved before the crash, the spokesman said. A Greek Defense Ministry source with access to the investigation told Reuters that most of the bodies recovered were "frozen solid."

[Bob]

If the plane was on autopilot at 35,000 feet, what would explain its descent to less than 10,000 feet in under an hour? If it wasn't on autopilot, could it have maintained altitude and heading as it appears to have done for an hour and a half? IANAP, but something's looking very strange here.

[mewzilla]

FRD=FDR

[trubluolyguy]

"Bush prolly made the airlines hire low wage illegals..."



Lets not give the POTUS or the airlines any ideas, huh?

[Zavien Doombringer]

as far as aerospace goes, the French aren't too bad... They do run the Airbus consortium...

[Jonx6]

Been through there many a time. I think some of our Kelly crew chiefs got moved there for a while during the first Gulf war. Good cheese-steak sandwiches on the flight line.

[r9etb]

Thanks! I'm no pilot, but isn't that a little high for a short haul?

Nope. The planes are designed to operate at altitude. They get out of the thick air ASAP.

[Heatseeker]

Wonder how Boeing feels about the French doing the analysis?

LOL. "We find that the crash was due to equipment failure, which would have been prevented had the airline purchased from Airbus".

[mewzilla]

They do run the Airbus consortium...

Yeah, I know :)

[mewzilla]

I wasn't thinking capability as much as expense. Doesn't it cost more to fly higher for longer?

[Muzzle_em]

YES!
If there was NO OXYGEN and the pilots were passed out cold, how were others able to function in the cockpit?
I too found that strange.

After 9-11, I suspect ANY plane crash to be terrorism until it is COMPLETELY ruled out MONTHS LATER by ALL the information available.

[wildwood]

this is what i was referring to:

Greek Defense Ministry officials said 90 minutes elapsed between the alert being raised at 10:30 a.m. and the plane crashing at 12:03 p.m.

Greek government spokesman Theodore Roussopoulos said F-16 pilots sent to investigate reported that with the pilots out of action there may have been a last-gasp effort by others on the plane to bring it back under control.

"The F-16s saw two individuals in the cockpit seemingly trying to regain control of the airplane," Roussoupoulos told reporters. It was not known if they were passengers or other crew.

"The F-16s also saw oxygen masks down when they got close to the aircraft. The aircraft was making continuous right-hand turns to show it had lost radio contact."

this does not seem to make sense to me, though i know very little about it.

[Zavien Doombringer]

decompression is the sudden loss of cabin pressure. NOt a slow leak. As long as the AC system is running you have a form of pressurization.

The only way a sudden loss of pressure can occur is if a hole suddenly appeared. When we test cabin pressure, we have allowable leakage, no cabin is air tight, close but not all tight.

A small leak would only have an effect in flight, if the AC system was turned off. or the Cabin Pressure regulator was stuck open. Usualluy it is failed to closed.

[Paradox]

Doesn't it cost more to fly higher for longer?

Nope, air is thinner up there, takes less fuel to fly fast. Fuel=Money.

[Heatseeker]

If the plane was on autopilot at 35,000 feet, what would explain its descent to less than 10,000 feet in under an hour?

No idea, but others have speculated that the passengers trying to take it off auto and fly it manually might do it. In fact I wonder what the limit of control is for modern autopilots if you have a mob of passengers suddenly surge to the very front of the airframe.

[Zavien Doombringer]

Man, I miss the infight kitchen...Box nasty anyone :)

[r9etb]

I wasn't thinking capability as much as expense. Doesn't it cost more to fly higher for longer?

No, it costs less. Less air = less drag, for example, especially at the normal cruising speed.

[Steve_Seattle]

"In order to descend from 30,000 feet safely to a breathable 10 or 11,000 feet, I think it takes roughly 4 minutes. So I think there must have been something else going on. The crew might have had bad oxygen, or the decompression was so sudden that it caused instant shock and disorientation, not allowing enough time for the pilots to properly secure masks."

You can breathe well above 11,000 feet; I don't think breathing is dangerously impaired until 18-20,000 feet. People around here climb Mt. Rainier without oxygen, and it's 14,000 feet.

It seems that if something catastrophically decompressed the plane, that the plane would have broken up in flight. I'm wondering if some toxic fumes entered the ventilation system and knocked everyone out before they had time to realize what was happening.

[Sacajaweau]

We knew at least one person onboard was lucid enough to send a text message....but no others? And we're assuming that the real owner was sending the message. WHOMEVER operated it could have just picked a name....and sent them a message.

The circumstances of this crash are very confusing. Who was onboard?? Anyone extraordinary?

[mewzilla]

Thanks!

[Paradox]

It seems that if something catastrophically decompressed the plane, that the plane would have broken up in flight. I'm wondering if some toxic fumes entered the ventilation system and knocked everyone out before they had time to realize what was happening.

The last time I flew on an Airbus, the interior air began smelling strongly (to me) of paraffin wax (jet fuel combustion byproduct type of smell I guess). It seems I was the only one whom it bothered, but then I have a very sensitive nose.