Homo-People were few and far between.
Now Homosexuality is a profit center
for Media Corporations.
Posted on 07/29/2005 9:54:14 AM PDT by NYer
ROME, Italy, July 28, 2005 (LifeSiteNews.com) – In the conclusion of Cardinal Ratzinger’s lecture, now Pope Benedict XVI, delivered on April 1st, the eve of John Paul II’s death, the then Cardinal strongly denounced the European Enlightenment culture and its increasing dogmatism against religion, Christianity and freedom.
The Cardinal expressed his belief that the reasons given by the architects of the EU Constitution for excluding God from the document—that the mention of God or recognition of the Christian roots of the continent might offend those of other religions—doesn’t hold up under scrutiny.
“The affirmation that the mention of the Christian roots of Europe injures the sentiments of many non-Christians who are in Europe, is not very convincing, given that it relates, first of all, to an historical fact that no one can seriously deny…It is not the mention of God that offends those who belong to other religions, but rather the attempt to build the human community absolutely without God,” said the Cardinal.
Instead, Ratzinger continued, it is obvious that the exclusion of religion from the public sphere is rather the result of the imposition of Enlightenment dogma, which dogma falsely professes the ideals of freedom and tolerance. Indeed, one of the inevitable consequences of what Ratzinger called the ‘Culture of Rights’, as divorced from its Judeo-Christian roots, is that “the concept of discrimination is ever more extended, and so the prohibition of discrimination can be increasingly transformed into a limitation of the freedom of opinion.”
“Very soon,” said the Cardinal in a chilling prophesy that is already coming to fulfillment in many Western nations, including Canada, “it will not be possible to state that homosexuality, as the Catholic Church teaches, is an objective disorder in the structuring of human existence.”
According to Ratzinger it is “obvious that the ill-defined or undefined concept of freedom, which is at the base of this culture, inevitably entails contradictions…A confused ideology of freedom leads to dogmatism, which is showing itself increasingly hostile to freedom.”
Ratzinger concluded by expressing his strong doubt that the Enlightenment culture will ever provide a common cause for men. “We have to ask ourselves,” says the Cardinal, “if it is really complete in itself, to the degree that it has no need of a root outside itself.” The implied answer, of course, is no, the Enlightenment culture without the firm foundation of Europe’s roots in Christianity can only devolve into a pseudo and dogmatic religion, ultimately restrictive of freedom.
Darn double post!
Sorry, new here.
Perhaps
But it is with certainty disordered because it is a clear deviation from nature and the way human bodies are constructed and normal human psychology has evolved.
Homosexuals are what I call "unfortunate misfits of human design"...whether from a creator's plan or from natural evolution.
I had to read your post twice.
I first read it to mean that you were no longer a practicing homosexual :-)
Welcome to FR!
Ask her if she's ever known a homosexual who has been satisfied with their life, or if they've ever demonstrated mental "imbalances" beforehand. I strongly believe that homosexuality is simply an indicator of larger psychological issues. Take my brother-in-law--he's a highly intelligent, educated guy who was very happy as a child, raised by two stable, loving parents, and the girls at school were all knocking each other over to get at him. Then one day, he comes out of the closet. Then, a few years later, he attempts suicide. He is severely bipolar (he claimed to suffer from PEST after the 2004 election...) and I believe that if he sought the proper treatment that he would find his homosexual desires fade away. Of course, that makes me a huge hate-monger, but what can ya do?
The Soviets tried to build a state without God, look where it got them.
Thanks for alerting me to this thread, will be a-pinging later. And check out the other thread you alerted me to, I just pinged the moral absolutes list and made rather a long comment...
Now Homosexuality is a profit center
for Media Corporations.
"Objective" in this context means "apart from the specific circumstances of the person committing the act; e.g., specific personal needs, state of knowledge, understanding, etc." "Objectively gravely disordered" means that the act, considered in an of itself without reference to the person committing it, is contrary to moral law.
don't think you can say that his viewpoint is any more objective than the scientist who will claim
The "objectivity" of anyone's "viewpoint" has nothing to do with what the Pope is talking about.
I am fervently wishing B16 a long, long life. :)
Welcome to FR!
The ony real freedom is the freedom to choose the right thing or to choose to learn from and repent of mistakes.
No, he doesn't exactly. Well, not only are they big shoes to fill and JPII had been 'the man' for 26+ years, instrumental in knocking out communism from parts of the world and working to make the Vatican and Pope accessible to all (JPII certainly did that, and Benedict doesn't have to pave that road, just follow it), but also he has only been in a couple of months during a time of particular trial esp in regard to the war and the pedophile scandal. Pope Benedict does have a different temperment and personality, not bad, just different.
Thank you, bookmarking. I remember studying psychology not so long ago in college and at that time, it was still taught that homosexuality was an objective disorder and even treatable for some. It was being argued then (early-mid 80's) that it should be removed as a 'disorder'. Some of my profs didn't think it would be removed. But it was. Now will we follow Canada and make it a crime to speak against it in any way?
One could argue that the scientist's viewpoint is subjective as well - because it is.
The Pope's perspective is not subjective because God has ordered reality according to His law and anything which contravenes that law is disordered.
That law is objective reality.
Partially correct -as you state, the homosexual disorder is OBJECTIVELY disordered; additionally, the condition cause unknown predisposes one to homosexual activity as such there are dangers/temptations associated with the disorder that surpass those a heterosexual endures. The disorder is innocuous as far as sin is concerned even though those with the disorder can be justly discriminated against in certain areas (e.g. military, teaching, vocations). Regardless, homosexuals are not judged sinful simply because they suffer the disorder.
Now as to homosexual activity -different story --Homosexual activity is ALWAYS objectively intrinsically evil -ALWAYS EVIL...
I point out that unless one maintain the separation of individual from activity (we are all created in God's image and are to be respected) one can not effectively legitimately and authentically argue in opposition to the homosexual agenda... For those interested -some links to documents and some excerpts:
Catholic documents and teaching on subject of homosexuality:
- The Truth and Meaning of Human Sexuality - Guidelines for Education within the Family
104. A particular problem that can appear during the process of sexual maturation is homosexuality, which is also spreading more and more in urbanized societies. This phenomenon must be presented with balanced judgement, in the light of the documents of the Church. Young people need to be helped to distinguish between the concepts of what is normal and abnormal, between subjective guilt and objective disorder, avoiding what would arouse hostility. On the other hand, the structural and complementary orientation of sexuality must be well clarified in relation to marriage, procreation and Christian chastity. "Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained". A distinction must be made between a tendency that can be innate and acts of homosexuality that "are intrinsically disordered" and contrary to Natural Law.Especially when the practice of homosexual acts has not become a habit, many cases can benefit from appropriate therapy. In any case, persons in this situation must be accepted with respect, dignity and delicacy, and all forms of unjust discrimination must be avoided. If parents notice the appearance of this tendency or of related behaviour in their children, during childhood or adolescence, they should seek help from expert qualified persons in order to obtain all possible assistance.
For most homosexual persons, this condition constitutes a trial. "They must be accepted with respect, compassion and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfil God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition". "Homosexual persons are called to chastity".
- Persona Humana - Declaration on Certain Questions Concerning Sexual Ethics
VIII At the present time there are those who, basing themselves on observations in the psychological order, have begun to judge indulgently, and even to excuse completely, homosexual relations between certain people. This they do in opposition to the constant teaching of the Magisterium and to the moral sense of the Christian people.A distinction is drawn, and it seems with some reason, between homosexuals whose tendency comes from a false education, from a lack of normal sexual development, from habit, from bad example, or from other similar causes, and is transitory or at least not incurable; and homosexuals who are definitively such because of some kind of innate instinct or a pathological constitution judged to be incurable.
In regard to this second category of subjects, some people conclude that their tendency is so natural that it justifies in their case homosexual relations within a sincere communion of life and love analogous to marriage, in so far as such homosexuals feel incapable of enduring a solitary life.
In the pastoral field, these homosexuals must certainly be treated with understanding and sustained in the hope of overcoming their personal difficulties and their inability to fit into society. Their culpability will be judged with prudence. But no pastoral method can be employed which would give moral justification to these acts on the grounds that they would be consonant with the condition of such people. For according to the objective moral order, homosexual relations are acts which lack an essential and indispensable finality. In Sacred Scripture they are condemned as a serious depravity and even presented as the sad consequence of rejecting God. This judgment of Scripture does not of course permit us to conclude that all those who suffer from this anomaly are personally responsible for it, but it does attest to the fact that homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered and can in no case be approved of.
- Letter to the Bishops of the Catholic Church on the Pastoral Care of Homosexual Persons
10. It is deplorable that homosexual persons have been and are the object of violent malice in speech or in action. Such treatment deserves condemnation from the Church's pastors wherever it occurs. It reveals a kind of disregard for others which endangers the most fundamental principles of a healthy society. The intrinsic dignity of each person must always be respected in word, in action and in law.But the proper reaction to crimes committed against homosexual persons should not be to claim that the homosexual condition is not disordered. When such a claim is made and when homosexual activity is consequently condoned, or when civil legislation is introduced to protect behavior to which no one has any conceivable right, neither the Church nor society at large should be surprised when other distorted notions and practices gain ground, and irrational and violent reactions increase.
11. It has been argued that the homosexual orientation in certain cases is not the result of deliberate choice; and so the homosexual person would then have no choice but to behave in a homosexual fashion. Lacking freedom, such a person, even if engaged in homosexual activity, would not be culpable.
Here, the Church's wise moral tradition is necessary since it warns against generalizations in judging individual cases. In fact, circumstances may exist, or may have existed in the past, which would reduce or remove the culpability of the individual in a given instance; or other circumstances may increase it. What is at all costs to be avoided is the unfounded and demeaning assumption that the sexual behaviour of homosexual persons is always and totally compulsive and therefore inculpable. What is essential is that the fundamental liberty which characterizes the human person and gives him his dignity be recognized as belonging to the homosexual person as well. As in every conversion from evil, the abandonment of homosexual activity will require a profound collaboration of the individual with God's liberating grace.
- Some Considerations Concerning the Response to Legislative Proposals on Non-discrimination of Homosexual Persons
II. Applications10. "Sexual orientation" does not constitute a quality comparable to race, ethnic background, etc. in respect to non-discrimination. Unlike these, homosexual orientation is an objective disorder (cf. "Letter," No. 3) and evokes moral concern.
11. There are areas in which it is not unjust discrimination to take sexual orientation into account, for example, in the placement of children for adoption or foster care, in employment of teachers or athletic coaches, and in military recruitment.
13. Including "homosexual orientation" among the considerations on the basis of which it is illegal to discriminate can easily lead to regarding homosexuality as a positive source of human rights, for example, in respect to so-called affirmative action or preferential treatment in hiring practices. This is all the more deleterious since there is no right to homosexuality (cf. No. 10) which therefore should not form the basis for judicial claims. The passage from the recognition of homosexuality as a factor on which basis it is illegal to discriminate can easily lead, if not automatically, to the legislative protection and promotion of homosexuality. A person's homosexuality would be invoked in opposition to alleged discrimination, and thus the exercise of rights would be defended precisely via the affirmation of the homosexual condition instead of in terms of a violation of basic human rights.
- Third World Meeting of Families: Conclusions of the Pastoral Theological Congress
Mention should also be made of recent attempts to legalize adoptions by homosexual persons, and this must be strongly rejected. It is obvious that this is not the situation for authentic up-bringing and personalizing growth. “The bond between two men or two women cannot constitute a real family, nor much less can the right be attributed to a union of this kind to adopt children without a family”. With regard to foster care and adoption, the great principle to be applied is always the child’s higher interests which much prevail over other considerations.
- Fourth World Meeting of Families: Conclusions of the Pastoral Theological Congress
We reaffirm the rights and dignity of all children. They should never be neglected and abandoned on the streets. They should be protected, especially when threatened by exploitation through prostitution, pornography, child-labor, drug trafficking, homosexual adoption and immoral "sex education". A new threat to children is posed by the misuse of the Internet, when this intrudes into family life and undermines the rights and duties of parents.Children are the "crown of marriage", the real wealth of humanity. The natural place for their education is the family. It is here, in the community of life and love, that they are formed as members of Christ's Church. It is here that, honoring and loving their parents, they can enrich the lives of all members of the wider family.
- Considerations Regarding Proposals To Give Legal Recognition To Unions Between Homosexual Persons
4. There are absolutely no grounds for considering homosexual unions to be in any way similar or even remotely analogous to God's plan for marriage and family. Marriage is holy, while homosexual acts go against the natural moral law. Homosexual acts “close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved”.7. Homosexual unions are totally lacking in the biological and anthropological elements of marriage and family which would be the basis, on the level of reason, for granting them legal recognition. Such unions are not able to contribute in a proper way to the procreation and survival of the human race. The possibility of using recently discovered methods of artificial reproduction, beyond involving a grave lack of respect for human dignity, does nothing to alter this inadequacy.
Homosexual unions are also totally lacking in the conjugal dimension, which represents the human and ordered form of sexuality. Sexual relations are human when and insofar as they express and promote the mutual assistance of the sexes in marriage and are open to the transmission of new life.
As experience has shown, the absence of sexual complementarity in these unions creates obstacles in the normal development of children who would be placed in the care of such persons. They would be deprived of the experience of either fatherhood or motherhood. Allowing children to be adopted by persons living in such unions would actually mean doing violence to these children, in the sense that their condition of dependency would be used to place them in an environment that is not conducive to their full human development. This is gravely immoral and in open contradiction to the principle, recognized also in the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child, that the best interests of the child, as the weaker and more vulnerable party, are to be the paramount consideration in every case.
- Religiosorum Institutio
30. Those To Be Excluded; Practical DirectivesAdvantage to religious vows and ordination should be barred to those who are afflicted with evil tendencies to homosexuality or pederasty, since for them the common life and the priestly ministry would constitute serious dangers.
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