Natalee Holloway - Case Discussion Extended Thread 11

Various News Outlets | 7/29/05

[TexKat]

Natalee Holloway is shown in this undated family photo. (AP Photo/family photo)

[stlnative]

I think that we can be fairly sure that PVDS was Joran's ride home at 4am and that Joran did not go home with Joran at 11pm - I don't think he snuck out - PVDS was letting him run loose maybe because AVDS was out of town. We don't even know if PVDS went home himself that night. Where is PVDS's alibi?

[theophilusscribe]

SM: http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?p=55762&highlight=#55762
Red

Replies: 642
Views: 9839
PostForum: News & Case Discussion Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 9:56 pm Subject: LCD #50 8/01/2005 Monday Evening
QUICK FILL IN:

1. Had lunch today with Linda Allison today and she was asking all king of questions about SM. I told her that there were so many Monkeys out there that have never met her familiy that follow and care about Natalee and her family so much. She was moved.

2. Yes, Beth is coing back to Aruba.

3. Tim Miller did go back to he States today and may return later in the week.

4. We searched the Atlantis hotel this AM with dogs and vision stick technology and all searches came back negative.

5. We went back to Paul VDS's neighbors property today and checked the resevoir and sewer as well with vision stick. Watch Scarborogh Country tonightat 10pm, they should have exclusive SM pictures of the search.

6. We were also at the Bird Sanctuary at Bubali with the Dog team searching for Natalee on previous hits by other dog teams.

More ...

[RGVTx]

I heard the 4am time talked about in the past, but never knew the source. My guess is that 4am time is true since it was PVDS's first two stories. The time change would have been made for CYA reasons.

[fishntex]

All this talk about urine and. . . I gotta go!

[rolling_stone]

This was an excellent interview, not just the content but the format..no hype no sensationalism, as SGT Joe Friday used to say just the facts maam just the facts..I have not been a big fan of Greta until lately, she has been doing an excellent job..I can't stand to watch Nancy Grace or larry King no matter what they have to say...Arlene needs to let her hair down again, nobody wants to hear what she has to say, but she is an attractive diversion...

[stlnative]

odd looking septic tank - pretty deep also (nasty)

[Rusty Roberts]

Don'tcha just love how the system that is so concerned about the US system that treats suspects like "objects" with polygraphs is now so excited about a "behaviorist"?

Granted, my thought was that this behaviorist was supposed to be skilled in interviewing, meaning he/she would be able to get under Urine's skin, see just what might tick him off, what might get those lips loose.

If this is a case of a pristine looky loo, our goose is cooked.

[RGVTx]

That underage JVDS supposedly has open lines of credit at all of the casinos.

---

You've got to wonder why a 17 year old would have lines of credit at any casinos.

Money laundering?

[maggief]

RWV:
Posted July 25, 2005 09:06 PM

... Now let's look at the rumors: Van Der Straaten is on the take with the drug dealers (Michael Posner, owner of the Excelsior casino I think comes up; he is rumored to have employed Joran as a dealer for his clients). Well, it's common knowledge that due to very lax financial laws Aruba is great for casinos and thus money laundering...you get one of your guys to lose a bunch of dirty money at the casinos, casino counts that as legitimate winnings...clean money! It is also known that Aruba is owned mostly by three families that have known drug or organized crime ties: Posners, Mansurs (that's right- Jossie's family), and Cuntreras. Finally lets look at timing: every time the family or the media or U.S. public expresses frustration or displeasure at the investigation, some new and very transparent evidence miraculously pops up! You know...the U.S. is the most powerful nation in the world...why does LE think we got that way by being STUPID?!...

[theophilusscribe]

SM: http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=671&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=660

Ting
Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 10:48 pm Post subject:

chloe2 wrote:
There was an article from the gov't. someone posted a while back discussing money laundering in Aruba and how one of the main ways they do it is offer lines of credit to 'respectable' member of society, such as judges, lawyers, etc., have them gamble, cut them a check . . . etc.

I remember seeing the article but I do not have the link saved. It was on one of our gov't Web sites I believe. (I did not explain this very well, but the essence of it was -- lines of credit to 'respectable' members of society so that they can launder the money for them.)


I would imagine parties involved in such enterprise, regardless of nationality, would be eager to see the investigation focused in a direction that would not jeopardize revenue generation, or involve embarrassment to wealth-builders of Aruba and beyond.

[Krodg]

As opposed to what? There's more speculation on these threads than there are democrats on anti-depressants.

Yes, there is much speculation here, but the same is true in most FR threads. I don't have a problem with people who want to follow the Shango line, however, I do have a problem with topics that totally take over the original threads.

Most of the regular posters have been discussing media & witness reports and at times they get off topic. The difference is that once Shango was brought up, most posts were about solving the mystery of Shango...instead of the mystery of Where's Natalee?

This is my first and last post on the Shango topic.

[No Surrender No Retreat]

I would probably say what Mr. Natural would say,"Sheeeeit Happens." As to my statement ringing hollow, that depends on how one interprets the statement.

Things are ambiguous and often have a myriad of hypothetical illusions when queried by various levels of intellectual circumspection.

I have to go now, but I have some good news, I saved a ton of money on my car insurance.

Good Night TBV,

NSNR

[TexKat]

Excelsior Casino Aruba

Street Address: 

J.E. Irausquin Boulevard 230
Palm Beach, Noord
Aruba, Dutch Caribbean
TeL: +(297)-586-7777 • Fax: +(297)-586-5555
E-mail: info@excelsiorcasino.com

Aruba, Aruba, Aruba

After resting up from my last stop on the tournament trail at Hollywood Park Casino, I flew to almost indescribably beautiful Aruba. The first annual Caribbean Poker Classic was held at the Excelsior Casino, located at the Holiday Inn. Casino owner Mike Posner, an American who still lives in Chicago, and tournament host and organizer Bonnie Damiano were on hand to greet players and make everyone feel welcome. Tournament legend Jack McClelland was also present to make sure things ran smoothly. Two tournaments each day were on the menu, with the bigger buy-in event starting at 3 p.m. and the evening tournament starting at 8 p.m. Some extra pot-limit Omaha tournaments were thrown into the mix, so we had three tournaments from which to choose on some days. Noted pot-limit Omaha players such as David “Devilfish” Ulliott from England were in attendance, as well as Layne Flack, Fred Sigur, Don Barton, Tom Dye, Butch Wade, and former world champions Russ Hamilton, Mansour Matloubi, and yours truly.

[Malichi]

From SM: Susan Candiotti: police did talk to the landfill witness within days of Natalee's disappearance. The tags matched up to a vehicle that was not in the landfill on the day that he saw it. LE doesn't put much credibility on this landfill witness.

Typical Aruban investigative technique. I bet one could go through customs smoking a joint with six kilos of coke slung over your should in a Wal-Mart bag. "Cocaine? No, that's baby powder that my grandmother special makes for my daughter." Sheesh

Stlnative, I apologize once again for slamming you. I misunderstood your long post on Thread 10 coupled with Lead Moderator's post about Gingersnaps. I truly thought that you were posing as Gingersnaps to pick fights. I know, I know, I jumped to the wrong conclusion.

Yes, yesterday was a slow news day and I am guilty of getting in off thread discussions myself. I'm also guilty of being a complete jerk at times too.

Thanks for Texkat's and your work on this thread.

TAW

[theophilusscribe]

SM:
http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=671&postdays=0&pos
JessesMom

Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 10:41 pm

JessesMom wrote:
Yes, this was an interesting conversation. When asked by Greta about the rumors that she is alive, Venezuela, Beth referred to the fact that Joran has gamling debts at all the casinos, an open line of credit, indicated that those 2 ideas go together. When Greta asked her what percentage probability would she give to the scenario that Natalee is still alive, Beth hesitated and then said I'm going that she's still alive. She had already made reference to the fact that there is no indication that she is on the island.

I'm glad they're coming out with this idea. I think a lot of us have been thinking along these lines for awhile, including me .... maybe it's just wishful thinking that she is alive out there somewhere, but obviously the HT's are holding out this hope also.

[TexKat]

If this is a case of a pristine looky loo, our goose is cooked.

And well done at that.

[TexKat]

The title of the article in my post #1853 reminds me of what some of the MB students reported that Natalee yelled from what they thought was a taxi.

[theophilusscribe]

You're phenomenal, TexKat! Thanks for your stellar work . . .

[stlnative]

I have made up my mind that I am going to send at least 1 card or 1 letter to Beth in Aruba every week in until Natalee is found. I want Aruba to know "americans" have not forgotten about Natalee and that we will continue to stand behind Beth's fight to find her.

Beth said that most of her mail in Aruba is simply addressed to:

Beth Holloway/Twitty
Aruba

[theophilusscribe]

SM: http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=671&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=760

sunmoonstars

New postPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 11:08 pm
Greta w Beth & Jug Monday Pm

We talked to some of the friends that were on the trip. Beth is like one of their best friends.
Friends came over this afternoon and we talked about the trip and got the real picture of what happened.

I saw specific details that were eating me alive
Pvds stated he picked them up at 4am
When we went to his home, is the first time he changed it to 11pm
Jug: I really hope that the new people involved. Getting Van der Stratten out of the way, things can go back to the beginning.
Statements were not taken for 19 days
Need to go back and talk to a lot of people
Beth: I cannot wait to go back to Aruba
Jug: When we drove up, Joran, Deepak and Paulus were there and they have the answers
Beth: They were no more credible witnesses than anybody. They have no credibility.
They have the fisherman, resturant help and security guards saying there is no way they saw Natalee there.
They need to rearrest them.
Nailing the three together at the racquet club.
If Deepak and Satish are saying that is where they left Joran and Nat, it is a lie.
Optomistic about new investigators
Jug: My friends who came down to help me went to the international school. They took posters to the school and were actually writing on there, wrote on the bottom of them asked Joran.
Headmaster comes out and says come into my office. He was a nice guy.
He tells about Joran and father came in the day before and discussed a little about what happened.
The father said in front of the headmaster: Joran, you need to come clean you've already admitted you had relationships with Natalee. We need to tell the true story or something like that.
Headmaster said I understand the video at hotel had a break in it and that is why they didn't see them pull up at HI.
I also understand they may have been swimming and she may have hit her head.
Jug wondering how the headmaster knew all that two days later?
The police say they have talked to him, but family has no details.
We ask, they wont tell us.
Why would Joran tell the headmaster that there was a break in the tape at the HI??
Beth: Deepak, Satish and Joran were the last three to see Natalee. There is no way that I believe that Deepak and Satish have any credibility as a witness saying they left Natalee and Joran at the beach.
Jug: There is no physical evidence that she is not. As much as we have searched and looked and prayed. There are so many stories out there where he could be connected to this or that or this could have happened because of gamblind. Or this could have happend because of that. There is a big possibility that she is alive.
Beth: You are hearing this gambling debt. Joran has an open line of credit at every casino. Had one at Excelsior...where is that casino manager? Did he leave the country?
Greta: What about these stories that she may be in Venezuela?
Beth: That is where I tie it back to these gambling issues. I just don't know if that could have played into it or not. Who knows where his connections were, what connections he had at these casinos. I think about that as a kidnapping or transaction, I don't know.
Greta: What is your level of reliance on that, that she is still alive?
Beth: I have nothing to prove to me that she is not. Absolutely nothing, so I am going for she is alive. Because I just don't have anything else.