Christian Adoption Agency Nixes Catholics

AP ^ | 07/15/05

[Roos_Girl]

By the way, what about the description of Catholic belief from the Lutheran Church is wrong?

[yevgenie]

Re: Uh, you are kidding right? Every branch of Christianity that exists today as an organized religion traces itself directly back to Catholicism. You are ignorant if you think Catholicism isn't Christianity.
Sorry, you are totally ignorant on this point. My church/denomination pre-dates the Roman Catholic Church, having begun in AD 52.

[dangus]

>> I have talked to plenty of Catholics who say Mary is a co-redeemer and co-mediator. <<

Mary's acceptance of God's will was, through God's design and not hers, the means through which mankind was redeemed. To express this fact, many Catholics call Mary "co-redemptrix." While what they mean is true and not heresy, the Catholic Church has rejected that title because it may lead to the very confusions that Protestants are wary of.

Likewise, we who do not know Christ in person can know him only through the mediation of the Church, which has given us the sacraments and scripture. (Or direct revelation, but that's certainly an exceptional circumstance, and even then, we'd need scripture to make heads or tails out of it.)

Therefore, the Church, AS THE BODY OF CHRIST, is our co-mediator. And Mary is the embodiment of that Church.

[yevgenie]

re: The Catholic Church started Christianity. How is it not "Christian."

Common misconception. The RCC did not "start Christianity". Furthermore, not all Christian churches are derived from the RCC. For example, my church began independantly and before the RCC.

[jw777]

not my intent or postion.

[InterestedQuestioner]

Think this one has already been dealt with. At least twice.

[Question_Assumptions]

My point is not that all of them don't think of Protestants as Christians. In many cases, they simply think that "Catholic" is equivalent to "Christian" and say "Catholic" when they mean "Christian" by habit. So if they mean to ask, "Are you a Christian?" they might say, "Are you a Catholic?" In at least one case, I'm talking about a discussion I had in college with other college students, so I'm not talking about people who shouldn't know any better. My point is that if someone in a Protestant-majority area asks, "Are you Catholic or Christian?" they might really mean "Are you Catholic or Protestant?" and not mean that Catholics are not Christian. They may simply think that the words "Protestant" and "Christian" are interchangible the same way some Catholics I've met think that "Catholic" and "Christian" are interchangible. It's another way of saying, "Are you the normal (meaning "my") type of Christian or that Catholic kind of Christian." It may really have nothing to do with who they think is or isn't Christian. It might, but it also might not.

[dangus]

I'll take it you mean Mark 3:35. But compare that to John 19:26-27: "When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son! Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own [home]."

And so we disciples of Christ regard Mary as our Mother.

[Graybeard58]

Here's one.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!ZOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now, go do the laundry.

[GatorGirl]

No, that wasn't the only point. Does this agency ONLY adopt to "Non-denominational" Christians or do they allow Baptists, Lutherans, Methodists, Presbyterians, et.al. adopt as "Christians"?

If so, then to make a distinction between a Christian agency and a Catholic one is to show your ignorance about Catholicism. Catholics are as Christian as they come!

[rasblue]

>Of course not. You can't be a Christian unless you own a copy >of The Prayer of Jabez or have been personally healed by >Benny Hinn

I thought Benny Hinn was a Catholic who did non-denominational services, kinda like Jack Van Impe.

[what's up]

I'm not referring to the doctrine of Mother.

I meant 3:21 and 31. These verses indicate that Mary was not a "perfect disciple" as a poster above stated.

[Graybeard58]

I'm a Lutheran now and the potlucks can't compare..

My daughter was married in a Luthern Church and after the wedding we had the reception at a buffet. The Minister came and ate like a pig. I mean he really scarfed down the food. As soon as he finished he came to me and thanked me for inviting him but he had to leave or he would be late for a pot luck at the Church.

[jw777]

try and keep up. You are not taking the comment for what is. you are pulling a Wilson, Schumer, Pelosi and making it what it is not.

Kinton.

[InterestedQuestioner]

My point is not that all of them don't think of Protestants as Christians. In many cases, they simply think that "Catholic" is equivalent to "Christian" and say "Catholic" when they mean "Christian" by habit. So if they mean to ask, "Are you a Christian?" they might say, "Are you a Catholic?" In at least one case, I'm talking about a discussion I had in college with other college students, so I'm not talking about people who shouldn't know any better. My point is that if someone in a Protestant-majority area asks, "Are you Catholic or Christian?" they might really mean "Are you Catholic or Protestant?" and not mean that Catholics are not Christian. They may simply think that the words "Protestant" and "Christian" are interchangible the same way some Catholics I've met think that "Catholic" and "Christian" are interchangible. It's another way of saying, "Are you the normal (meaning "my") type of Christian or that Catholic kind of Christian." It may really have nothing to do with who they think is or isn't Christian. It might, but it also might not.

QA, I think we're running around in circles here. Never met a Catholic who thought that Protestants were not Christian, and at this point in my life, I'm doubtful I ever will. As a Catholic, however, I can tell you that there are many who consider Catholics to be non-Christian, and you may even find a few here on FR willing to go on record and state that. Any takers?

As for the discussion at hand, it has been prompted by a branch office for a national agency, and there is some indication that the person setting their policy hold that Catholics are not Christian, hence refuses to adopt children to Catholic parents.

[Campion]

By the way, what about the description of Catholic belief from the Lutheran Church is wrong?

Since you asked:

Lutherans believe that Scripture alone has authority to determine doctrine; the Roman Catholic Church gives this authority also to the pope, the church, and certain traditions of the church.

Neither the Pope nor the church can "determine doctrine" in the sense that they can make it up out of whole cloth. They can reiterate, explain, or expand upon the Deposit of Faith, but they cannot contradict it at all. Public revelation closed with the death of the last apostle. All we can do is try to understand its implications.

If you want to see a good exposition of the Catholic view of Scripture, read Vatican II's decree Dei Verbum.

Lutherans believe that a person is saved by God's grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.

Nothing in the NT says anything about being saved by faith alone. In fact, the one place the words "faith alone" are used says you are not saved by faith alone. That's in James chapter 2.

The Roman Catholic Church, while at times using similar language, still officially holds that faith, in order to save, must be accompanied by (or "infused with") some "work" or "love" active within a Christian.

This is a completely muddled and confused description of Catholic doctrine.

What we believe is straight from the NT: "Faith without works is dead ... such a faith has no power to save one" (James 2) and "Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love" (Galatians 3) and "If I have faith enough to move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing" (1 Corinthians).

[jw777]

I posted it. That was MY point, so, yes, that was the point.

Christian Adoption Agency. Does that say Catholic, Lutheran, Baptist, Episcapalion, Protestant? No, it says Christian. I didn't say it exclued anyone, YOU DID!

[dangus]

Beautifully stated.