Posted on 07/14/2005 7:24:14 AM PDT by Saberwielder
-snip-
Suspected ties between last week's London bombings and Pakistani extremist groups are renewing criticism that the Bush administration has failed to effectively dismantle a terrorist infrastructure in Pakistan, and that it may have missed signals of possible attacks in the United Kingdom.
"If the London bombers really were trained in Pakistan, then it really looks terrible" for the Bush administration, said Evan Kohlmann, a New York terrorist expert and author. "It would call into question" much of its counterterrorism work with Pakistan.
U.S. officials confirmed last week that they had received significant intelligence suggesting al Qaeda was targeting mass-transit systems in the West. But they said they didn't have any specific information that suggested London was a target. British officials repeatedly have denied they had any intelligence or warning regarding the attacks.
News that some of the London bombers may have trained in Pakistan as recently as this year also has some Bush administration supporters questioning Washington's unqualified support for Islamabad's government. "Are we really getting the support of Pakistan?" said John Tkacik, an Asia expert at the conservative Heritage Foundation in Washington. "I really don't know."
(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...
People are going do die regardless of whether the suicide bomber is an Arab or a Pakistani Muslim.
I am not buying the story that they were 4 suicide bombers- I prefer to think they were set-up and didnt know they bombs would be exploded while they were still holding them -Or even thought they were carrying something else.
They dont fit the profile, and there was no boasting suicide video.
Plus the bombs were on a timer or all remote detonated at the same time- not needed if you have a suicide bomber to pull the switch
"the Bush administration has failed to effectively dismantle a terrorist infrastructure in Pakistan, and that it may have missed signals of possible attacks in the United Kingdom."
Last time I looked we were not in Pakistan.
I would also note that the Brits "failed" to catch those same signals.
Some people demand miracles the whine like little kittens when they are not forth coming.
Given the circumstances we are operating under with Pakistan, unless we are willing to get in Mushareff's face and advise him that we are coming in NOW, it won't change.
The odds of that happening are pretty much nil.
Does any one really believe it could be done much differently?
THat's why he wont let US go into Paki and take care of business ourselves.
I got a ticket on the way home? Bush's fault.
Terrorists attack from Iraq or Afghanistan? Bush's fault.
Terrorists attack from a country other than Afghanistan or Iraq? Bush's fault.
The Brits don't have that many people in Pakistan.
We need to give Musharraf an ultimatum to close down all terror camps that he is using to pressure India and Afghanistan. The report says that these "camps" are not in the tribal zones but in Lahore, the second largest city in Pakistan. The camps in question run with Pakistan military support.
If Musharraf is so weak that he cannot even close down camps inside cities, then what good is the alliance? Are we willing to sacrifice a few dozen of our civilians every now and then to avoid "destabilizing" Musharraf?
Pakistan is a real big problem. I just don't know that there is much we can do about it now. There have been several articles detailing the issue there in the past several weeks before the London bombings. Musharraf can't go after the terrorists with everything he's got or he will be overthrown by the radicals in Pakistan which still have much popular support. Bush is not going to ride him so hard that he gets overthrown. You'd basically be handing OBL and his thugs their entire nuclear arsenal. I hate to say it, but for now, 50 dead is whole lot better than 1 low yield nuclear detonation in downtown London. Hopefully, if things improve in Iraq, we might be able to put more pressure on them with the threat of a hundred thousand troops sitting next door.
Stuff happens.
In a war with terrorists, terrorist stuff happens. The U.S. has failed to shut down a network in Pakistan? As if the U.S. could shut it down...
How about Israel? They are the best of the best. Did they ever completely shut down everything? Of course not.
Musharraf has trouble just staying alive in Pakistan. His enemies within, who want to kill him for whatever degree of help he gives us, certainly show he is running afoul of somebody. Oh, that's right, he must have set up those attempts on himself, to fool us, because in reality all the jihadists there just love Musharraf. /sarcasm
No, actually, there is a war going on inside all of these places. Not always will we find a bright, clear, unequivocal line between good and bad. Sometimes, people are a little iffy because of corruption, or fear of being killed or their families killed.
Look at Iraq. People blown up, beheaded, kidnapped and tortured, threatened into suicide bombing by threats on their families, etc. You name it.
These are some of the reasons why "stuff happens", despite the best efforts of some on the side of good.
In the long run, President Bush is correct that economic and political change is desperately needed in the Middle East. Now we know that people living in so-called Western Democracies need to be changed as well...
Like the "moderate Muslims" who became terrorists in their home country of Great Britain.
Also, the reason the investigators concluded that they were suicide bombers was that PAPERS were found identifying the perps.
Now, if the four jihadis' mission were indeed a suicide mission, would their handlers have allowed them to carry on their person precisely the evidence needed to trace the deed back to the planners themselves? The handlers couldn't risk asking the jihadis to remove the papers from their person for fear they would smell a rat, and not carry out the mission. I too believe that this was a remote detonation, and the Islamists cannot reveal the fact that no one is willing to die for their cause anymore.
I understand.
But Mushareff seems to be hanging on by mere threads. He apparently cannot count on his own military which has a large jihadi element itself.
I would imagine that our offices in Pakistan are little more than information gathering posts only. There is little they can actually do.
It would be nice if we could attack those schools and "camps" but I just do not see a practical way to do so without losing Mushareff completely and the little that he does.
Perhaps we should not worry about it and do it anyway. We could stand the international "heat" with a hearty "stfu".
But i would think the "camps" would simply reappear somewhere else.
I just don't know. It is frustrating as hel l.
" I too believe that this was a remote detonation, and the Islamists cannot reveal the fact that no one is willing to die for their cause anymore."
Yup. Also agree with that. If these people thought this was their final mission why would they only take 10 pounds of explosive each when there was far more than that found in their car? I would suggest they *thought* they needed the explosives left in the car for a future operation. You don't have future operations if you are a suicide bomber! They would have used the lot.
I suspect they were told by their handler that as a test they had to take part in a minor operation to prove themselves and ferry some explosives to an other operative who was going to plant it later. I bet they had the promise of bigger operations later on if they didn't mess this one up.
I guarantee that if they were the real deal suicide bombers the many people who survived the bus bombing would recall a scream of "Allah Akhbar" just before it went boom. No such reports.
I'd put my mortgage on it being a timer that the carriers knew nothing about.
Having lived in Pakistan and worked on strategic affairs of the Near East for almost 3 decades, I can tell you that Musharraf's hold on power is stronger than what is being conveyed.
Many of these camps were reopened earlier this year with Pakistan army permission as per a report in a prominent Pakistani magazine.
Great point!
We all must understand that our enemy's only hope in defeating us lies in harnessing FEAR to cause our fifth columns within our countries to overcome our political will. Osama knew that the suicide mission supplies a geometric augmentation in the fear factor of any attack. It is precisely the suicide factor which causes defeatism and self-flagellation within the weak-minded. A remote detonation is cowardly, and is seen so by the "Arab Street" as well as the targeted populace.
They will lose, and they; know it, if these attacks are revealed to be remote detonations, IMHO.
>>Are we willing to sacrifice a few dozen of our civilians every now and then to avoid "destabilizing" Musharraf?
3000 Dead in the USA made us "allies" with one of the State that sponsored 911.
>>I can tell you that Musharraf's hold on power is stronger than what is being conveyed.
Exactly, that line has been pushed to keep Mush in power.
He's simply a smooth talking, clean shaven jihadi.
"He's simply a smooth talking, clean shaven jihadi."
And he is a chameleon which is why its so difficult for most people to see who he really is. I think the administration knows its made a mistake in dealing with him but they dont want to admit it because it will make them look stupid.
They also know that pakistan is too big a problem to solve and they are devoid of ideas so they wont accept the problem publicly coz if they did, they would have to come up with a way to solve it or else their failure is visible.
In other words, the administration is selling the interests of the nation so that it lives on...
Well, things may be changing in light of the London bombs and this....if things do change, it'll certainly have taken long enough. But terror with overt undeniable Pak connections may spur some clearheaded thinking for a change.
-----A “hidden agenda” of the visit would be to demonstrate that the USA had “de-hyphenated” its relations with India and was not “seeing it through the prism of Pakistan”, added the US official.
An important item on the agenda for the Indian side is terrorism, with the foreign secretary, Mr Saran, saying that the Prime Minister will be raising the subject during discussions. “There can be no segmentation in the fight against terrorism,”
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1443563/posts
a lot is being said that what would happen if mushy is assassinated and some tribal,jihadi takes control over pakistans' nukes;well the fact is some other general of the army will take over and continue to fool the civilised world.
It has now been revealed that the terrorists bought a "park and display" ticket at the parking facility. Can you shed any light on whether this bolsters our theory that they were less than willing to committ suicide? Or not?
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