Natalee Holloway - Case Discussion Extended Thread 7

Various News Sources | 7/14/05

[TexKat]

Mountain Brook High School graduate Natalee Holloway went missing May 30 during a senior trip to Aruba. AP photo

[spectre]

You want ABSOLUTE facts? Try this on for size.

Joran was with Natalee the night she disappeard. FACT.

Joran felt the need to LIE about where he left her off. FACT.

Natalee was never seen again. FACT.

Now, if this were YOUR daughter, just tell us how in the name of God, you would for one split second, think that Joran was not involved with her disappearance? Tell us, that in spite of his confirmed LIE, that YOU, as the girl's Mother...could possibley NOT conclude he was involved.. Be honest...no BS.

sw

[TexKat]

True story via a clerk in a clothing store in Charlotte, N.C.? Enquiring minds want to know.

I don't know if it is a true story or not, but this looks like a link to the individual that the NE is referring to:

James L. Dooley & Associates, Inc.

James Dooley - President
jim@theheadhunter.com
Biography

Bella Dooley - CFO
bella@theheadhunter.com
Biography 

[PBRSTREETGANG]

Thanks for posting it.

I was just expressing my general skepticism about the National Enquirer, especially given the way this particular story is sourced.

[gingersnaps]

Now, if this were YOUR daughter, just tell us how in the name of God, you would for one split second, think that Joran was not involved with her disappearance?

Where did I say I "th[ought] that Joran was not involved with her disappearance?" Please show me the post where I supposedly said that.

I think the problem here is not being precise with words. "Involved" is a word that's too imprecise on its own (as in the current MSM claims that the White House denied that Karl Rove was "involved" in discussions about Valerie Plame -- of course Rove was "involved" ...but he wasn't involved in leaking Plame's name or status).

What I have said, some time ago, was that my theory was that Joran and the Kalpoes might not be guilty of murder; and that it was possible that none of the three knew of her ultimate fate.

If you like, I could go on about various theories that could explain the lying without involvement in murder; but other people have expounded on the same theories before, and I don't want to go on too long.

[Fritzy]

Just got home from work... agree with the Enquirer barf.. but they are, in essence saying just what many of our FR folks have said.. Joran and Natalee were high on something.. things got out of hand and she passed away.. then he panic. Joran had to cover his back side.. he is 17 and without any visible signs of integrity or maturity.... now take it from where our FRs have discussed.. he calls his father tells him what happen and gets his Dad or friends of his Dad to help cover Joran's trail... I don't think that JOran can face up to his actions.. if it was an accident, most of us would have called 911- stayed with the body and using the truth shielded our future... but Joran does not have that capacity.. most likely from his cultural background and a total lack of parental responsibility.. or at least, from what we have seen... If his father does know this.. his father should stand up and be counted.. face the system.. face the Holloways.. oops there I go again.. using integrity and values as a mutually agreed upon standard.. Just my early two-cents.. regards to all the Freepers!!!

[gingersnaps]

Believe it or not, there is a mountain of evidence on this case. Huge amounts of film footage from the very beginning. While a lot of this evidence may not be admissable in court, he has given us a birdseye view of the case and of the people involved...particular the van der Sloot family.

OK, if you have time, I would much appreciate your posting specific facts from the "mountain of evidence."

If you do, I hope you will carefully "sift through" and distinguish between absolutely known facts, and things that have simply been repeated often enough that many people believe them to be facts.

I also hope you'll take a look at the RW post, linked by FReeper 'toldyou' in post 1779, that is very contradictory to some of the information we've been assuming is the story of this case.

Now again, that is an anonymously sourced post. I don't know if it's true; nobody does, except the person who anonymously posted it.

But OTOH, I don't see any reason to think that particular RW post is less true than almost all the other stories we've heard in this case.

[TexKat]

Thanks Fritzy, makes sense.

[outinyellowdogcountry]

Maybe you could start a new thread to defend yourself.

[Dark Skies]

OK, if you have time, I would much appreciate your posting specific facts from the "mountain of evidence."

Now, really. How arrogant is that? You're not the judge in this case. Do you own homework, if you want a real opinion.

Your position is "I won't believe anything unless someone proves it to me." Your lack of knowledge about Aruba and everything else is the result of your own lack of effort. Most people here are sharing ideas and trying to understand this case. But you don't seem to be interested in that. You seemed to be mostly looking for opportunities to brag about your son.

Sorry for being blunt, but my patience has worn thin. This is the last response from me. I would rather chat with people who have open minds and do their homework.

People on this thread care deeply about what happens here. This thread isn't about you...it is about Nat and Beth.

[hershey]

Sorry if this has been mentioned before, but this morning on the five am, CBS Boston newschannel, they said that a six inch piece of duct tape with long hairs attached and what looked like blood...washed up on the eastern tip of Aruba. The LE are sending it to Holland for forensics....DNA. Someone should ask Beth Twitty for a sample if they haven't already.

[hershey]

Okay, just saw that you all know about the duct tape. Good.

[TexKat]

But we had not heard about blood, at least I had not. Thanks for the info hershey.

[Yaelle]

Depressing "facts of evidence" there. But isn't that only what the PRESS knows about Natalee? Isn't there ANYTHING else that points to Natalee against her will? Such as the phone call to her Mom? I hope there is SOMETHING else. Why else would Jug talk about devastating facts? I hope there are facts we don't know. FRANKLY, I don't think they would have held Joran these next 60 days if that was all they had.

[beyond the sea]

post # 1409

Milichi.... I have a short time to live, perhaps............ I feel like my good friend Steve McQueen when he moved to Mexico ............ he was blowing up with cancer.

I am looking for some bizarre cures.......................like a sh*t load of garlic, a bunch of carrots........ or whatever!

******

The truth of ALL THINGS may be that spending at least an hour on FR each day (by every American voter)............... just may be the cure of all things.

Bless FR............... and please eat well.

[GarySpFc]

Does it tell you anything that PvdS is in the casinos when his 17 year old son is gambling?

Do you think PvdS knows his 17 year old son is drinking?

Do you think PvdS knows his 17 year old son is into sex?

Do you think PvdS knows his 17 year old son lies?

Do you think PvdS has disciplined Joran in the past?

What is PvdS's view on seeking out the truth, and how does that relate to Joran?

What does this tell you regarding Joran's moral compass?

BTW, the Greek word for truth is altheos, which also means reality.

[Yaelle]

Yeah, right. A conversation with a clerk at a clothing store in the USA, and the FBI gets the Aruban LE to arrest Paulus. NO! WAY!

[Jrabbit]

I suppose it depends on how you choose to raise a child. You seem perfectly content with the job you did, as does Mrs. VDS.

Girls throwing themselves on your son and caressing him? And you are telling me that, oh well, it's the culture we live in? Perhaps if you permit it, it's your culture. If I ever witnessed such behavior, and my son didn't have enough sense to morals to put a stop to it, I, as his mother, would make CERTAIN that it stopped. And I guarantee I would not be PC about it.

We obviously don't agree about what is acceptable for teenage male behavior. That's fine. And since this thread isn't about us or our sons, I'll leave the subject alone.

Joran lied numerous times about his activities with Natalee. That alone should make him the #1 suspect besides being the last known person to be seen with her.

[spectre]

I never used the word "murder".

As soon as it was found out that Joran and the brothers LIED about where they let Natalee off, it would be naive to even suggest they knew nothing about her fate. They had a good reason for not telling the truth, and a person doesn't need to be a "shrink" to figure that out. It's elementary.

If she died in Jorans care, HE KNEW. And if she were passed off to someone else, HE KNEW that as well. Joran is guilty of something, we just don't know what it is...yet.

He knows what happened to Natalee.

sw

[Jrabbit]

I agree.....he knows. And I think daddy VDS does too.