Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Came across this editorial while looking into the trial of Galileo and how it has been interpreted through history in the light of theology and science. Posted by permission of the author for pupose of discussion.

I happen to agree that, as long as there are public schools, it is necessary to allow a certain amount of freedom in those areas where world views tend to collide. In a perfect world public education would not be necessary.

1 posted on 06/01/2005 9:24:54 AM PDT by Fester Chugabrew
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies ]


To: Fester Chugabrew
the statement "separation between church and state" was made up by a liberal it has nothing to do with the constitution.

The constitution just stipulates that government shall not establish a state religion (ie. Church of England)
2 posted on 06/01/2005 9:33:51 AM PDT by Nyboe ( if rich democrats really want the rich to be taxed more ... then by all means TAX RICH DEMOCRATS)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Fester Chugabrew
Let me be clear that I don't think it's good that schools teach creationism, intelligent design, or other pseudoscience such as astrology, withchraft, ESP, etc. If I were to create or fund or support a school, I would argue against it doing those things. So it's not that I think it's appropriate for schools to teach falsehoods and pseudoscience. My point is that it is not for me to judge what is appropriate or not for other people. When I own my own private school, it's my own business to make those judgements. But when it's a public school, the school should serve the purposes of everybody. Not only should it serve the purposes of both those in favour of pseudoscience and those in favour of science. But, more importantly, it should recognize that not everybody will agree on what is science and what is pseudoscience. In a free society everybody is allowed to make his own judgement on that. For goverment to make that judgement for people is authoritarian. Therefore, governments should not forbid subjects being tought based on the fact that they are pseudoscience. If you give government the power to forbid something because it's pseudoscience, then they are bound also to forbid something genuinely scientific and true at some point, on the arguement that it is pseudoscience. We are all fallible, and so is the government. Power given to government to protect us against illness, unhapiness and bad ideas, even with the best of intentions, will eventually turn against us and control us.

Well, if you wanted to do away with public schools, forcing them to teach whatever lunacy any freak wants taught would be one way to destroy them.

The government makes decisions all the time about what's good science and what's pseudoscience. The FDA does it; NIH and CDC do it, the NTSB does it. Now, maybe when the Libertarian millennium comes, the gummint will get out of the business of certifying drugs as safe and effective, coordinating the control of epidemics, investigating airplane crashes, etc. But while they're doing all those things, there is no inconsistency in their deciding what subjects are science and what are b.s..

3 posted on 06/01/2005 9:34:49 AM PDT by Right Wing Professor
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Fester Chugabrew

> Public schools should teach both evolution and creationism, and students should be given the choice which of those courses they want to take.

Yeah! And public schools should teach both the heliocentric AND hollow Earth theories! And they should teach both the "Islamic whackos flying jetliners" AND "Angry thumb of God" theories behind the collapse of the WTC! And they should teach both the "germ" theory of disease AND the "out of balance humours" theory of disease! And they should teach both the "cause and effect" theory of reality AND the "Astrology and oujii boards" theory of reality!


5 posted on 06/01/2005 9:36:35 AM PDT by orionblamblam ("You're the poster boy for what ID would turn out if it were taught in our schools." VadeRetro)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Fester Chugabrew

The article is a steaming pile from the very start.


6 posted on 06/01/2005 9:37:39 AM PDT by Protagoras (Slamming other Christians isn't very Christian)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Fester Chugabrew
The state is used to supply education the way atheists want it ... The reason this is done is ... they want to force people to ... learn what is good for them.

Science is good, religion is bad, ergo people must learn science and the teaching of religion must be made difficult.

Every group uses state power to enforce their way of life on others. This will be so as long as there is a state. Only the theists are more honest about it.

A very clear presentation of the argument.

19 posted on 06/01/2005 11:20:23 AM PDT by watchin (People become leftists as a sort of gesture of infantile rage against their parents)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Fester Chugabrew

Great essay...


54 posted on 06/01/2005 6:40:26 PM PDT by F16Fighter
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Fester Chugabrew
This is a bunch of B.S. First of all this guy isnt articulating our founding fathers he's parroting the Lemon Test from Lemon v. Kurtzman (1971).

Religion shouldn't be taught in our public schools....Do you want your kids being taught the Koran? While I agree Evolution is a theory it has basis in scientific fact. Creationism is a religious belief. It should be mentioned but if you start teaching creationism in school you open the door wide for every religion. That's what religious schooling, churches and home influences are for. Keep religous teachings out of the school because, God forbid, some Mullah gets his claws into your kids' developing mind. There would be no end to that slippery slope.

72 posted on 06/02/2005 5:31:20 AM PDT by N. Beaujon (http://www.nbeaujon.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Fester Chugabrew
As to 2. Most people think public schools should teach certain things other than science, such as physical education, moral education, sexual conduct, political ideas, social skills... political correctness..."

These are exactly the things that should NOT be taught in our public schools. How about "reading, writing and 'rithmatic", instead? It's when we strayed from these programs that we got ourselves into an objectivist, post-modern nightmare. Today, we turn out functional illiterates because we don't teach things that are grounded in fact. This guys case for teaching religion in school is just mindbogglingly dumb and his arguments are completely lacking in scholarship.

73 posted on 06/02/2005 5:39:54 AM PDT by N. Beaujon (http://www.nbeaujon.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Fester Chugabrew
It was landmark U.S. Supreme Court precedent Reynolds v. United States in 1878 that made "separation of church and state" a dubiously legitimate point of case law, but more importantly; it confirmed the Constitutionality in statutory regulation of marriage practices.

Congress, state legislatures and public referenda have statutorily determined polygamous, pederast, homosexual, and incestuous marriages are unlawful. No Constitutional Amendment restricting marriage is required to regulate "practice" according to the Reynolds decision.

Marriage is a religious "rite," not a civil "right;" a secular standard of human reproductive biology united with the Judaic Adam and Eve model of monogamy in creationist belief. Two homosexuals cannot be "monogamous" because the word denotes a biological procreation they are not capable of together; human reproductive biology is an obvious secular standard.

All adults have privilege to marry one consenting adult of opposite gender; therefore, Fourteenth Amendment "equal protection" argument about "privileges and immunities" for homosexual marriage is invalid. Driving, marriage, legal and medical practices are not enumerated rights; they are privileged practices that require statutory license. Nothing that requires a license is a right.

Homosexual monogamy advocates are a cult of perversion seeking ceremonious sanctification for voluntary deviancy with anatomical function and desperately pursuing esoteric absolution to justify their guilt-ridden egos. This has no secular standard; it is an idolatrous fetish. Why not properly apply the adjudicated Reynolds 'separation of church and state' here?

No person can logically say that carnal practices engaged by homosexuals are consistent with human anatomical function. It is obvious, and an impervious secular argument to say that biology is a standard by which we can measure. The hormonal drive to mate is biologically heterosexual.

Morality and all of its associated concepts are from the belief that some higher power is defining the correctness of human behavior. It is apparent some people still worship idols in this day and age. Should we really be canonizing special societal privileges in the law based on a person's idolatrous fetishes? Whatever happened to the ‘separation of church and state’? Perhaps homosexual monogamy advocates could conclave to enshrine their own phantasmal state religion and consecrate Michael Jackson as its first Pope!

Today, "morals" are a religious pagan philosophy of esoteric hobgoblins. Transfiguration is a pantheon of fantasies as the medium of infinitization. Others get derision for having an unwavering Judaic belief in Yahweh or Yeshua, although their critics and enemies will evangelize insertion of phantasmagoric fetishisms into secular law.

Was Freudian psychoanalytic theory of sexual stages in psychological development more accurate than accredited? The Michael Jackson Complex is fixation on mutilation of and deviance with human anatomy in the media. It is a social psychosis catering to the lowest common denominator and generated with Pavlovian behavioral conditioning in popular culture.

76 posted on 06/02/2005 5:57:43 AM PDT by Sir Francis Dashwood (LET'S ROLL!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Fester Chugabrew
Here in Indiana we are currently imbroiled in a religious crisis within the State Legislature.

The democrats are uncomfortable that the Legislative days are opening with prayer, that they say, is far too often Christian in nature.

To that charge I would like offer the following statistics:

Indiana's Religious Makeup

Protestant-67%

Roman Catholic-20%

Other Christian-1%

Other Religions-1%

Non-Religious-8%

Now, given these numbers, how often would you say it would be appropriate to start the day with a Christian prayer?

209 posted on 06/05/2005 7:20:44 PM PDT by fightu4it (conquest by immigration and subversion spells the end of US.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: thompsonsjkc; odoso; animoveritas; St. Johann Tetzel; DaveTesla; mercygrace; ...

Moral Absolutes Ping and Public School/no Public School Alert.

Interesting editorial and lively discussion. I'm a bit late to the party, maybe some of you made it over here already.

Personally, I'm all for the separation of State and School. Or at least, total local control and total local funding.

Let me know if you want on/off this pinglist.


213 posted on 06/05/2005 10:31:02 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Resisting evil is our duty or we are as responsible as those promoting it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: All
Education should be left up to the states.

If the heartland of America (Mid-west, and South) wants intelligent design then let them have it.

If the armpit and @$$hole of America (New England,West Coast, New York etc) want to teach Evolution then let them have it.

No Child Left Behind was an awful bill and the GOP should go back to their original and correct position and eliminate the bloated bureaucracy called the Department of Education.

240 posted on 06/06/2005 10:54:09 AM PDT by Evolution (Tolerance!? We don't need no stinking Tolerance ! ! !)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson