Posted on 05/20/2005 8:09:59 AM PDT by ComtedeMaistre
Every day, the economic power and political influence of Red China continues to increase. I am, however, interested in knowing how powerful China is militarily. Is China strong enough to defeat the US in a conventional war? The latest I heard is that they have a total of 10 million trained to serve in their military, including reserves. I would especially like to hear from Freeper veterans as well as those serving in the military, on the potential threat that China poses to the United States.
I agree. I hope they get the shuttle fleet straightened out soon so we can get to the business of defending the nation.
Paul
I guess what really gets me is there is a common percieved notion on just about all the threads on this site that china is just some backward 3rd world county we don't have to worry about...that all they produce is soft cuddly toys and their people live in bamboo huts pulling rickshaws.
The under estimation of china and their potential threat to America to me is astonishing.
Space weapons. We need to beat them in that field. Not just defensive stuff but OFFENSIVE space weapons too.
Yeah. China has become a hyrbid of communist and fascist. Communo-fascism as I have been calling it. The best qualities of both. An entirly different beast than communism alone and facism alone. Their biggest threat to us is in asymmetrical warfare as proven by the Pentagon Report last year. Japan has come under heavy assault by ChiCom hackers recently. I would not be surprised if they had ties to Al Queda for example. Their interest in Mexico, Panama and Venezuela is alarming. They are the sponsor (and be extension the puppet master) of our Democratic Party.
One can only respect the chineese - but I will never respect their political system. The government can do anything to and with you.
Maybe they change their government. Or maybe they invent the most brutal and agressive capitalism ever seen. Where humans don't count and money is everything. Where all organs of a republic are under control of a small and old commite. Liberlism without democracy and the concept of a republic.
But if they change - if they become a reliable and friendly international partner with a free population. Then we are all better of.
We need to change too. We have to overcome national interest and act multilateral again.
We are only strong together and not devided in a fragmented EU a divided USA (red and blue countries) and Japan as a small country living at the door steps of a giant.
Free the trade in the western world. Make companies pay for jobdrain into asia and southamerica.
One can only respect the chineese - but I will never respect their political system. The government can do anything to and with you.
Maybe they change their government. Or maybe they invent the most brutal and agressive capitalism ever seen. Where humans don't count and money is everything. Where all organs of a republic are under control of a small and old commite. Liberlism without democracy and the concept of a republic.
But if they change - if they become a reliable and friendly international partner with a free population. Then we are all better of.
We need to change too. We have to overcome national interest and act multilateral again.
We are only strong together and not devided in a fragmented EU a divided USA (red and blue countries) and Japan as a small country living at the door steps of a giant.
Free the trade in the western world. Make companies pay for jobdrain into asia and southamerica.
Why be multilateral when the "partners" seeks to destroy you as leftism and western europe seeks? We cannot depend on France and Germany because they have already sided with China. The UN is corrupt and we already have to deal with the leftists here. Even if we could, we cannot count on others for our national defense and especially cannot sink to the level of asking permission to protect ourselves and our true allies (not the backstabbers). We should not need authorization from the UN and its security council members to defend against China.
While it would be nice to have more allies, right now we can only trust Japan, Israel (although we need to stop them from selling to China), and Poland and Britain to a certain extent (there are politicians in britain that would gladly choose China). Australia is a good ally but John Howard is too afraid of upsetting the red dragon. South Korea's Roh is so blatently pro-China that he wants increased MILITARY cooperation between the South Korean and PRC militaries!
Well, you are now clear on the concept. Whatever happened earlier?
The Korean War
According to official US Pntaon historical reporting, most of the 1 million Chinese casualties in Korea died from freezing in the extreme winter COLD than actual combat
you said no non-western power has won a war against western powers for ver 3000 years
I can straitaway give you 2 examples, the first is the MONGOL HORDES of Jenghis Khan sweeping and conquering Europe in the 1200 era. How about the CRUSADES where SALADIN whipped the Europeans
And Vietnam.......
Yes, Korea was a stalemate
what you said in your #173 post reminds me of the Secy Of Defense Robert McNamara famous 1965, "our boys will be home from Vietnam by Christmas 1965..." "......after all the Viet-Cong are just a bunch of inferior 3rd world trash,....should be a piece a cake..."
Hmmmm at night, with some tin foil wrapped around the various parts, a propane heater to generate a infrared profile, could that junk spoof a million dollar missile? Just wondering.
yeah let's see how long it takes to chase these comparably microscopic amount of people on flip flops carrieng a towel full of semtex and rusty nails into the city of baghdad...
there's no space age weapon to defeat a bunch of human beeings in lemming mode. (Non without mayor issues concerning the planet you life on that is)
Okay, let's define "defeat" since there seems to be a bit of confusion.
In the history of the world, conflicts between Western Civilization and non-Western civilization always end badly for the natives. Yes, there are certain instances where an Atilla, Genghis Khan, Saladin or an Admiral Togo manage to pull off a signifigant victory and momentarily change the course of history against a Western power. However, these victories are never truly followed up and exploited and the West always rallies and recovers.
So, while Genghis and his cronies did in fact sweep through Russia and Eastern Europe, once the big man died, the Mongols retreated back into Asia. The greatest victories of the Mongol hordes were, in the end, againt other Asians (Chinese and Indians). While Admiral Togo destroyed the Russian Navy at Tsushima Strait, Japan never invaded and conquered Russia. Crazy Horse massacred Custer and his men, but the Sioux Nation did not survive. Moghul India never invaded Portugal or England, but was iteself invaded, colonized, exploited and to this day still bears the mark of Western culture in everything from language to dress to government to media.
Yes, non-Western powers often have an impact, but that impact is very often fleeting.
The reasons why have nothing to do with relative military power, at least at the onset of hostilities, but are related directly to certain cultural peculiarities. If you need more information on this subject, please read Victor Davis Hanson's "Carnage and Culture" and "Infantry Combat in Ancient Greece". John Keegan has also written extensively on this subject, especially on the tribal and ritualistic nature of on-Western warfare. I recommend his "History of Warfare" highly, if you're interested.
Basically, it comes down to the fact that Non-Western peoples have no "staying power" when it comes to extended warfare. This is not a knock on the qualities of the individual warrior, bt rather a recognition that without the support system of Western Civilization (free expression, respect for personal property, secular rationalism, unfettered scientific inquiry, rampant capitalism, etc), their impact tends to be vastly reduced.
The best example I can think of in the 20th century would be Imperial Japan. They won major victories, but could not stay in for the long haul. Japan was only a western-style power on the surface, and it's traditions, customs, and even religious beliefs , kept her from becoming a true first-rate power. It was only after Japan had been conquered and occupied, with a western-style constitution rammed down it's throat, that Japan came to be what it had dreamed of for the previous 70 years; a western economic and military power. I have no doubt that Japan in the 21st century, with 60 years of true democratic and capitalist society behind it, would be a much more difficult foe than it was in 1941.
Sorry, I forgot to respond to the example of Saladin. A great warrior, but ask yourself this: how was it that Europeans from several different countries (England, Spain, FRance, Germany, Italy, etc) managed to transport, supply and field a devestating army in the Middle East, but Saladin could not do the reverse?
Basically because Saladin was leading a bunch of tribal warriors who, indiviually, were the equal of any Christian crusader, and who had a religious fervor every bit as great as their opponents. What Saladin lacked to take the war to his enemies where THEY lived was a system that allowed for the accumulation of capital and free scientific expression, and the merging of the two in order to create a truly destructive war machine.
Although Saladin was a brilliant leader and tactician, what finally killed off the Crusades were dissention in the ranks back in Europe (The Church versus the Nation State), and the gradual discovery of an alternate route to Asia via the oceans. After all, the Crusades were every bit about commercialism as they were religion.
And don't forget, the Second Crusade fell upon Christian Constantinople, not the Muslims (a predisposition in the Germans I'm afraid). We're not exactly talking about Europe displaying a united front against the Muslim onslaught.
When Europeans did get their act together, however, they swept the Muslims from Spain, France, Sicily, Greece and the Balkans, never to return. Yet Europeans would still be in the Middle East, the former Persia, the Arabian Penninsula, and other Muslim lands from the 1300's tot he present day. Excluding two seiges of Vienna, there is no similar Muslim resurgance that I'm aware of.
Of course they can. Chinese are 10 foot tall and shoot lasers out of their eyes.
Cuz they piss us off.
Don't forget how they can shoot lasers out of their eyes.
"Private Hernandez, you were so good at hopping a border fence that I *know* you can hop that retaining wall and fight. Now, MOVE, SOLDIER!"
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